payment/plan & questions

[BKman]

Ok maybe I didn't understand my plan. Under the means test I was told we/I am over the state income limit by $169 a month. My attorney said I would have to go with a chapter 13. He said that they would try and get my payments at $255 a month for 5 years. (110K CC debt)

Filed on 12/28/09

Paperwork in from attorney on 1/2/09. Waiting for court paperwork so I know where to send the money.

341 meeting on 2/16/2010

Paperwork from attorney says payments of $255 start on 1/9/2010. It also says that I have a DMI of $169. Isn't the DMI what my payments are to be? I have yet to hear from my attorney but I'm trying to understand how he got the $255 payment.

Mortgage is not in the plan. They have my old mortgage company down. It was just tranfered to another company. I gave them the new information before I filed. Does that matter?

US bank cleared my checking account right after I filed. They got $9.93. Good thing I opened a new account with a new bank. I closed my checking & savings with them on Monday so they can't charge me the monthly service fees.

The free company stocks my wife cashed out will be off her income in May and her income average will drop by $750 a month. That alone will put us under the means test and I believe it will remove all of our DMI. Unless I have a streak of luck and get a lot of jobs.

Question: Being self employed, should I ride out the 13 for 5 years or try and convert to a 7 and risk the loss of one of our cars and the $3000 my wife has in stocks. I don't care about my car (03' jeep liberty with 65,000 miles) and she doesn't care about her stocks. I would have waited to do a 7 later but AMEX sent me to collections after 1 month late and being in a community state I didn't want to take any chances with my wife because she didn't file.

I hate my job! I stay at home fulltime with my son and if I could find a night job I would take it. I really just want this over so we can move out of state to be near family.

[rrockinggramma]

appartently to make your plan workable you need to pay the 255 a month.

I hope you sent in your payment this week.

I would make a few payments and wait for all the dust to settle and then convert to a chapter 7

[klandsb]

I understand your confusion as I was in the same boat .... I guess the means test DMI
" does not" really mean that is what your pmt is going to be. What is on the I & J schedule actually is your pmt amount but it has to be what they would get if you take your assests minus your debt ???? does that make sense

I am sure a seasoned forum member will chime in so WE BOTH get it

[BKman]

Didn't send my payment yet because I don't have the letter from the court saying who to send it to, only the letter sent from my attorney about my case and when my meeting is.

[lrprn]

I understand your confusion as I was in the same boat .... I guess the means test DMI " does not" really mean that is what your pmt is going to be. What is on the I & J schedule actually is your pmt amount but it has to be what they would get if you take your assests minus your debt ???? does that make sense?

This is yet another area of Ch 13 legal interpretations that vary from district to district, sometimes even court to court within the same district.

Some courts use the Means Test calculation as the disposable income indicator and set the payment from there. More courts use the difference between Schedule I minus J as the disposable income indicator and set the payment there. Your court must be one that uses Schedule I minus J.

We were a test case in our local court three years ago for this very issue. After our trustee and our lawyer traded briefs and we had a hearing, our judge decided that in our local court, Schedule I minus J should be the standard to set Ch 13 payments. That decision personally cost us another $150/month.

Still, I'm very glad that the case law decision helped other filers to know before they file that Schedule I minus J would trump the Means Test disposable income, at least in our local court. Makes it easier to not deal with a lot of unknowns.

[forgotten]

We were a test case in our local court three years ago for this very issue. After our trustee and our lawyer traded briefs and we had a hearing, our judge decided that in our local court, Schedule I minus J should be the standard to set Ch 13 payments. That decision personally cost us another $150/month.

I wished our district used the means test! We had a negative DMI on the means test but +$1000/mo on schedule I & J!

[contemplate]

Is there a way to find out (before deciding whether to file) which way one's district determines the payment?
Thanks in advance!

[BnkrptcyLwyr]

The free company stocks my wife cashed out will be off her income in May and her income average will drop by $750 a month. That alone will put us under the means test and I believe it will remove all of our DMI. Unless I have a streak of luck and get a lot of jobs.

Sigh ...

Need more info.

Is the only reason that you are "over" the median income because of the $750/month average stock income?

Did the attorney claim this one-time extra income as a "special circumstance"?

Why not just wait until May to file when the income would drop off?

Were you close to a Chapter 7? Sounds like it.

[optimistic1]

The means test figure is just a starting point, as more courts become more familiarized with this concept, you will see most move to using the schedules in lieu.