Does clock start at filing or confirmation?

[beachchick]

We are in a 60 month Chapter 13. Does the 60 months start at the time of filing, which was April 1, 2007 or the time of confirmation, Feb. 7, 2008? Thanks....

[Flamingo]

This apparently varies by district. For us it was from day of filing with first payment due in 30 days (clock for first payment started then). Others have posted that they started making payment 30 days after filing but the clock for their payments started at confirmation...do a thorough search in this forum or check with your attorney.

[rrockinggramma]

Michigan starts at confirmation.

[justbroke]

Florida starts on first payment under the "unconfirmed" plan. So, that's about 30-45 days after filing.

[walkthaplank]

In So Cal (Riverside Court) it starts with your first payment. In our district the plans are confirmed, litigated or dismissed the same day as the 341.

[lrprn]

Kansas and Missouri both start the count at first Ch 13 payment too.

Michigan is the only state that any member here has mentioned has this practice of starting the count at confirmation. I would love to see someone who files in Michigan challenge this. I don't see how it's possible to start the count at confirmation and not force the filer to make more than 60 payments. This directly violates the bk law as it is currently written and interpreted that the filer is never to make more than 60 payments, period.

Would love to see the case law that Michigan uses to support starting the payment count at confirmation rather than at the first payment. Maybe since I'm not a lawyer, there's something obvious about this that I'm missing?

[BnkrptcyLwyr]

Kansas and Missouri both start the count at first Ch 13 payment too.

Michigan is the only state that any member here has mentioned has this practice of starting the count at confirmation. I would love to see someone who files in Michigan challenge this. I don't see how it's possible to start the count at confirmation and not force the filer to make more than 60 payments. This directly violates the bk law as it is currently written and interpreted that the filer is never to make more than 60 payments, period.

Would love to see the case law that Michigan uses to support starting the payment count at confirmation rather than at the first payment. Maybe since I'm not a lawyer, there's something obvious about this that I'm missing?

Working here in Michigan, I can tell you that I have no intent on challenging it any time soon. They count these extra payments toward the total. This is very beneficial - you can miss a payment, and the earlier payments will make up for it. Also, if the debtor is trying to catch up on home arrearages, those extra payments help to make sure that the house payments are caught up.

Is it the correct thing to do, probably not ... the legal aspect of it is pretty clear that the first payment starts at the 30th day. But another provision of the code does allow for alteration in the start of payments (and I've filed a motion to move back the start date before). So, there can be some legal basis for the practice.

And again, there are benefits for the debtor, believe it or not.

[lrprn]

And again, there are benefits for the debtor, believe it or not.

Thanks for sharing, BL. Good to know that Ch 13 filers aren't penalized and required to pay more than 60 payments just because they live in Michigan. Still seems like a very weird practice, though

[secondtime2]

In Charlotte, NC, it's 15 days after we file and 30 days after that.

[beachchick]

Thanks to all who responded. I have asked my lawyer repeatedly and he never responds, pretty much blows me off, don't know why I paid him in full and on time. Also, he was supposed to roll some property taxes into the payment and he forgot and now it is like pulling teeth to get him to fix it, he probably knows he scrwed up and is hoping I will stop bugging him about it, I have repeatedly called, faxed, emailed begging for response to the tax problems and other questions like when does the clock start, at filing or confirmation, and he totally ignores me, or his secretary makes excuses for him. I don't know what to do at this point, if I report him to bar association, I am afraid he will drop me altogether. Any suggestions?

[becky20]

Working here in Michigan, I can tell you that I have no intent on challenging it any time soon. They count these extra payments toward the total. This is very beneficial - you can miss a payment, and the earlier payments will make up for it. Also, if the debtor is trying to catch up on home arrearages, those extra payments help to make sure that the house payments are caught up.

Is it the correct thing to do, probably not ... the legal aspect of it is pretty clear that the first payment starts at the 30th day. But another provision of the code does allow for alteration in the start of payments (and I've filed a motion to move back the start date before). So, there can be some legal basis for the practice.

And again, there are benefits for the debtor, believe it or not.

Interesting - so let's say it takes 18 months to get confirmed for some reason (like in my case) - would I end up paying for 78 months or would I just get discharged sooner? Would I just skip the last 18 months of payments? I can see a few cases this might seem beneficial if we're only talking a month or two but what about a case like mine where it's 18 months to get confirmed due to an issue with a credit union... I'm not in Michigan and have already confirmed that in AZ it starts right away, not when confirmed but I'm just curious...

[ccfriend]

I am also curious about this. I am in MI and was confirmed two months after after I filed. I am not in 100% plan. So is I get the plan base completed sooner will I be discharged sooner?

[newbie2]

CCfriend, the way it was explained to me is this: We will pay for 60 months. The plan base has nothing to do with that. 60 months (after confirmation)

It is rather odd the way it is done in Michigan, and at first I was upset about it, but as the poster above stated it does provide a cushion. For example, we recently had a major auto repair that our meager savings couldn't handle. Our attorney amended our plan to skip a couple of payments so that we could have the vehicle fixed. It didn't affect the creditors or the base plan as we had that cushion of an extra 4 months of payments. Because of that "extra" the modification went through without an objection from the trustee or the creditors.

[NoTomatoCan]

But what if you never need a modification or never need to skip a payment? Do you get any payments beyond 60 refunded to you upon completion of your plan?

[rrockinggramma]

no your unsecured just get paid more in Michigan. My plan was 36 months but went for 39 of payments. 4 months after that for discharge. All of my money went to the creditors. I got a refund of about 6.00 when all was said and done. LOL