ammending taxes post ch13

[bmcmull]

We just completed our ch 13 plan in October. We have recieved our discharge paper from the trustee buit it still sais completed on the trustee web site. We file d standard deduction for taxes in 06-08 and recieved small refunds in the amount of 1500-2000 each time. I would like to go back and ammend those returns. Our income and assets never changed but I can re-file with itemized deductions and get back some extra money from the IRS. Does anyone know how long the IRS flags your account post ch.13 ? I dont want to jeoprodize my discharge but I also dont want to give the IRS 6-8k either.

[HHM]

Aside from "obvious fraud" both for bankruptcy and taxes...
Filing a false tax return.
Intentionally concealing disposable income from the chapter 13...

Sure, go right ahead

[bmcmull]

Aside from "obvious fraud" both for bankruptcy and taxes...
Filing a false tax return.
Intentionally concealing disposable income from the chapter 13...

Sure, go right ahead

I am not sure where the fraud is in this situation, we simply chose to file standard deduction. We had a 2nd and 3rd child while in the BK. We actually had a loss of income while my wife was on medical leave. Our atty would have nothing to do with us after the confirmation unless we paid him, which we couldnt. I went through hell and back during that 60 month period to stay current. Finding out the many fee's and deposits required post filing. Our atty definately was not on our side. As for the trustee that is a whole other thread to rant on. most of the extra money is due to child tax credits for day care we did not have at the time of filling.....

Fraud is expecting a family of 5 to survive on 250.00 a month in extra income when the cost of everything between 04 and 09 doubled. There is no way my atty and trustee expected us to make it... A fraud was definately commited, but by the very atty and trustee's that knew we had no other choice and are suppose to be in place to help you. I paid over 100k to my debtors over that time period, I accepted help from our local church and family to survive, I paid back my debt ( didnt file a 7) could have but didnt.

[bmcmull]

Aside from "obvious fraud" both for bankruptcy and taxes...
Filing a false tax return.
Intentionally concealing disposable income from the chapter 13...

Sure, go right ahead

I am sory you feel that way, and I didnt mean to go on. I will consider your point of view and maybe the federal gov. can use the extra money to fund some bs organization like acorn. My family has survived and is now debt free except my mortgage, we are healthy and ready to move on. thank you for your insight.

[justbroke]

I am not sure where the fraud is in this situation, we simply chose to file standard deduction. We had a 2nd and 3rd child while in the BK.

Did you pay 100% to your unsecured creditors over the course of your Bankruptcy? If so, then filing an amendment (1040X) to your prior year returns, is of no consequence.

However, should you have done this to intentionally kept money from the Bankruptcy Estate (from the Trustee's reach), then it is fraud.

I understand you had issues with your attorney, so take what I say only as a public service announcement for others. If you're in a Chapter 13 and your attorney is not helping you... call the Trustee! Chapter 13 attorneys actually get paid monitoring fees during the course of the case. It is common for them to make $1,000 or more on a Chapter 13 for monitoring.

If you ever have issues with your Chapter 13 Plan, reduction or loss of income, emergencies, you need to contact your attorney immediately. If they don't respond... contact the Trustee's office and let them know your attorney isn't helping you. There is no reason to "suffer" in a Chapter 13. There are mechanisms to modify the Plan. Since you actually paid $100K to unsecured creditors over the life your plan, that indicates to me that there was definitely room for you to account for new children, and other expense issues.

You definitely should have had your plan modified when you had the 2nd and then then 3rd child. I am sorry this happened to you, but there several problems that were just not addressed vigorously.

I do applaud you for making it through though.

[bktmom28]

What I am wondering is this...our attorney told us to mail her the check when we get our refund, and she will pass it on to the TT. How then does the IRS "flag" you, if you amend your taxes, seeing as we are only sending a check and a copy of our taxes? There is nothing connecting the TT to our tax filing, only the copy that I send them and the check with the copy. I am just curious how they would know if someone chose to amend their taxes? IE: changing from standard deduction to itemized deductions after filing?

[justbroke]

What I am wondering is this...our attorney told us to mail her the check when we get our refund, and she will pass it on to the TT. How then does the IRS "flag" you, if you amend your taxes, seeing as we are only sending a check and a copy of our taxes?

The IRS has a bankruptcy indicator flag on your accounts, amongst others.

There is nothing connecting the TT to our tax filing, only the copy that I send them and the check with the copy. I am just curious how they would know if someone chose to amend their taxes? IE: changing from standard deduction to itemized deductions after filing?

They wouldn't know and I don't think there's an IRS audit process that automatically checks for 1040X filings of people with the BK Flag set.

Many people don't get caught filing frivolous tax returns or "hiding" money from the Bankruptcy Estate while in a Chapter 13. While many Trustees require copies of annual tax returns, some don't even review them. Other Trustee's don't even require them, so the Debtors can certainly manipulate their with holdings. Now whether this is all above board or not, is a question that can only be answered based on the specifics of the Debtor's case. For example, if your attorney factored in an average return of $2,400 a year (by adding $200/month to your "current monthly income"), then any return under $2,400 is yours!

[bmcmull]

Did you pay 100% to your unsecured creditors over the course of your Bankruptcy? If so, then filing an amendment (1040X) to your prior year returns, is of no consequence.

However, should you have done this to intentionally kept money from the Bankruptcy Estate (from the Trustee's reach), then it is fraud.

I understand you had issues with your attorney, so take what I say only as a public service announcement for others. If you're in a Chapter 13 and your attorney is not helping you... call the Trustee! Chapter 13 attorneys actually get paid monitoring fees during the course of the case. It is common for them to make $1,000 or more on a Chapter 13 for monitoring.

If you ever have issues with your Chapter 13 Plan, reduction or loss of income, emergencies, you need to contact your attorney immediately. If they don't respond... contact the Trustee's office and let them know your attorney isn't helping you. There is no reason to "suffer" in a Chapter 13. There are mechanisms to modify the Plan. Since you actually paid $100K to unsecured creditors over the life your plan, that indicates to me that there was definitely room for you to account for new children, and other expense issues.

You definitely should have had your plan modified when you had the 2nd and then then 3rd child. I am sorry this happened to you, but there several problems that were just not addressed vigorously.

I do applaud you for making it through though.

thank you for the applaud, making through for 60 months was the hardest thing I could have imagined. The cost of my gas bill for getting to and from work jumped more than the amount they left us. Every year we filed our taxes and it would take about 3 months to get the return so I am sure their is some kind of flag on our account. As I stated before we have our health and we owe nothing to nobody. It truly is a fresh start. My advise to anybody is to never do a 60 month plan. To much can happen during that time.

[HHM]

Ok,

Your risk is probably low for anything coming of it if you amend your returns. However, there is a risk. That is all that I was trying to convey. Remember, BK fraud is "Fraud Light", they don't really need to prove actual intent, they only need to show circumstantially, that you acted fraudulently.

[bmcmull]

Ok,

Your risk is probably low for anything coming of it if you amend your returns. However, there is a risk. That is all that I was trying to convey. Remember, BK fraud is "Fraud Light", they don't really need to prove actual intent, they only need to show circumstantially, that you acted fraudulently.

I dont want to even commit "fraud light" it is not worth the worrying that I would go through waiting for the check. Life is good thank you for your help.