Lien Strip and Cramdown questions - please answer!

[justsumchik]

My first post was rather long and rambly, so I'm going to try a couple concise questions this time

1. Seconds that are unsecured are/can be stripped and added to the payment plan... this means that if we have 160,000 worth of seconds, 50,000 worth of student loans, 30,000 worth of credit cards and 18,000 worth of car loan (for a car we want to keep) all of that goes into the unsecured debt payment?

2. We have a rental with a first mortgage of 300,000 that will probably appraise for 150,000 to 160,000. However, we lived in it when we bought it and when we refinanced last - about 5 years ago, and even though we moved out within a month or two, which had always been the plan, I think the lender set it up as a primary residence mortgage. Would that preclude us from having it crammed down?

3. Is it possible to have a payment of $4,000 plus if your income allows according to the IRS numbers? For example our take-home is 10,200 plus 2,200 rental income which is a loss because the mortgages are more for the rentals. Could we really have a 4,000 or higher payment? Would that include all of our payments, including all of our mortgages or only the seconds that are stripped?

Thanks for any answers you may have!!

[JimKutkowski]

My first post was rather long and rambly, so I'm going to try a couple concise questions this time

1. Seconds that are unsecured are/can be stripped and added to the payment plan... this means that if we have 160,000 worth of seconds, 50,000 worth of student loans, 30,000 worth of credit cards and 18,000 worth of car loan (for a car we want to keep) all of that goes into the unsecured debt payment?

You need a lawyer in your district to tell you that, each district is different.

2. We have a rental with a first mortgage of 300,000 that will probably appraise for 150,000 to 160,000. However, we lived in it when we bought it and when we refinanced last - about 5 years ago, and even though we moved out within a month or two, which had always been the plan, I think the lender set it up as a primary residence mortgage. Would that preclude us from having it crammed down?

Depends on if they press the issue and what the trend is in your district, again I would try to find a lawyer on that one.

3. Is it possible to have a payment of $4,000 plus if your income allows according to the IRS numbers? For example our take-home is 10,200 plus 2,200 rental income which is a loss because the mortgages are more for the rentals. Could we really have a 4,000 or higher payment? Would that include all of our payments, including all of our mortgages or only the seconds that are stripped?

Did you do this as a separate business entity? Could be a Chapter 11 type issue rather than C13, either way I don't see any way out of consulting with a lawyer on your case.

[HHM]

1. Only Wholly unsecured seconds can be stripped. That means that your home value must be worth less than what you owe on the first mortgage. But, assuming the 2nd is wholly unsecured, then yes, it becomes part of your general unsecured debt.

2. The problem with cram downs is this, you MUST pay the crammed down amount INSIDE the plan. Thus, if the cram downed amount is $150,000, you must pay $150,000 over the course of the 60 months of the chapter 13; I am guessing doing so is not realistic.

3. It is possible, I suppose.