341 today

[walkthaplank]

We went to our 341 today and it was very nerve racking to say the least. The trustee was ripping into peoples expenses left and right, there were several who had their trustee payment tripled. There were more than 50 cases that she read off as being dismissed just doing the roll call. There were several people who she said they were going to ask to dismiss. By the time we were up we were nauseous. It went fast, she doubled our payment not disputing any of our expenses, she claims it was based solely on the evidence of our income. I'm still trying to figure it out. I have a call into my lawyer (we had a stand in lawyer... I am not pleased), based on his calculations and expenses we were trying to find ways to cut expenses to fund the plan.

She also said my lien strip motion had been denied on an evidentary issue, but seemed to think that it would be approved shortly. Once that issue was resolved they were planning to confirm the plan (that I don't know how I am going to pay for).

While we survived, I'm less than enthused. I think I can figure it out, but really the whole purpose of the CH13 was to cure some property tax arrears and strip my 2nd. The payment of my second was more than $200/mo less than my new trustee payment. I should have just done the CH7 and taken out a 401k loan in a few months to buy out my 2nd lien.

[TrainWreak]

Sorry to hear that. I hope it all gets straightened out for you. It totally crawls up my back side when I hear about unreasonable and unfair treatment like that!
My 341 is tomorrow and I hope there is no hanky panky

[rrockinggramma]

wow this trustee must have a nit picky staff. However you can always convert after confirmation but I would wait a few months. This trustee must not think the attorney's in her district do the job very well.

[indebt00]

Wow...I can't believe you got objections at your 341....our Trustee's are so busy that our lawyer said it could be 3-4 months before we have his response.

our 341 had NO questions to anyone about anything other than the standard: name, ssn, filed tax returns, etc.

I also can't believe your payment was doubled....I hope you get things straigtened out.

[ConfusedinOC]

After reading one of your previous threads you had consulted with two attorneys. The lawyer you didn't choose had your payment at over $900 per month than the payment your preferred lawyer had. What was the reason for the vast difference in payment?

[Billssuck]

OMG...that doesn't sound like the typical 341 that I have read about over and over. Ours was just standard ID, taxes, and other questions. We were only asked to show recorded deeds of trust for our mortgage and HELOC. Other than that, nothing. I didn't see anyone at our hearing get a payment increase.... WOW! I'm floored...!

[walkthaplank]

After reading one of your previous threads you had consulted with two attorneys. The lawyer you didn't choose had your payment at over $900 per month than the payment your preferred lawyer had. What was the reason for the vast difference in payment?

One looked at my paperwork, the other just took ballpark figures and tossed me a number. He wouldn't even consider attempting a lien strip unless my 1st was at least $50k underwater. He tried to sell me on the "magic" of CH13... I didn't need magic.

I'm not entirely pleased with my current lawyer for obvious reasons, but he was much closer to the number than the other guy and I didn't get any of my expenses challenged. I'm thinking there might have been some math error along the line, or an expense didn't get included. I'll have to see what the lawyer has to say.

[walkthaplank]

Wow...I can't believe you got objections at your 341....our Trustee's are so busy that our lawyer said it could be 3-4 months before we have his response.

our 341 had NO questions to anyone about anything other than the standard: name, ssn, filed tax returns, etc.

I also can't believe your payment was doubled....I hope you get things straigtened out.

She was a nice enough person, but ruthless in keeping to IRS standards for expenses. Which ironically we were over on a couple of issues. I thought for sure she was going to hack at some of my expenses and she didn't even bat an eyelash. The objection to my payment was strictly based on stated income on my forms and my paystubs. I believe it was a screw up on my attorneys end or a miscommunication with paystubs. My wife gets a benefits payout the first check of the month which if taken with the right grouping of paystubs could be taken as a greater amount of income. Beyond that, I don't see how two lawyers could take the same numbers, plug them into the same forms and get two very different numbers.

[liz417]

Gee, I'm sorry that your 341 didn't go as well as you expected. This Trustee sounds tough! I hope you've already called your attorney to set up a new appt to go over the expenses! If this Trustee is going to be such a hard-as*, you might as well have done a ch 7! Good Luck and keep us updated!

[indebt00]

She was a nice enough person, but ruthless in keeping to IRS standards for expenses. Which ironically we were over on a couple of issues. I thought for sure she was going to hack at some of my expenses and she didn't even bat an eyelash. The objection to my payment was strictly based on stated income on my forms and my paystubs. I believe it was a screw up on my attorneys end or a miscommunication with paystubs. My wife gets a benefits payout the first check of the month which if taken with the right grouping of paystubs could be taken as a greater amount of income. Beyond that, I don't see how two lawyers could take the same numbers, plug them into the same forms and get two very different numbers.

again...that sucks...hope it works out. I am on pins and needles waiting to hear about ours.

[walkthaplank]

So....

Based on the lien strip denial because of a missing declaration from the appraiser stating that (like his license included in the appraisal packet says) he is indeed an expert in the field of home appraisal my 13 was dismissed without prejudice for lack of evidence. Even though the plan was approved by the trustee, apparently the new thing in this court is that the whole case is dismissed and you must refile the whole thing (new 341 too) rather than giving a continuance so the filer can satisfy the judges evidentiary concerns for one portion of the filing (like they have been doing up until NOW).

My lawyer has already refiled, no he hasn't and won't charge me any extra to refile as they blindsided him with this too. I'm PO'd about the situation, but it is what it is.

We also found out how the trustee came up with a different amount than my lawyer for the payment. I have a 401k loan, contribution to 401k and my wife contributes to her retirement plan (which is in lieu of Social Sec). They basically told my lawyer that I can have the loan expense OR I can have the contribution expense, but not both. I'm going to try to make it without cutting my contribution to 401k, but I know I might have to for a couple of years to make this work.

The GOOD news is that I will be credited back the trustee payment made and I won't have to make up the difference of that payment and what the trustee wanted, yeah not much on the good front there! Hopefully I won't have any issues at the NEXT 341....

[lrprn]

We also found out how the trustee came up with a different amount than my lawyer for the payment. I have a 401k loan, contribution to 401k and my wife contributes to her retirement plan (which is in lieu of Social Sec). They basically told my lawyer that I can have the loan expense OR I can have the contribution expense, but not both.

Tell your lawyer to do some legal research on recent Ch 13 case law. There is a 2006 or 2007 case law decision in the Tenth District - Kansas City KS local bk court by Judge Berger that allows a couple in Ch 13 to repay 401K loans while continuing to make 401K contributions. I believe there are other case law decisions in other districts by local bk judges related to this as well.