Is it fraud? Am I in trouble?

[tennessee]

I am in a horrible mess and it would take all day to explain it so I'll just get to the point.

My husband and I have been in 13 for 3 years. My husband (who I am divorcing) got a bonus in March of this year. He had it placed on a prepaid amex card to hide it from the trustee...but gave me 3500 to leave the home we have been buying...He was cheating and wanted the house...I was to move back to my hometown. I sent that 3500 to my family to find me a home in my home state. He has now, 3 1/2 months later, reversed the charges, claiming unauthorized use. This has now become a matter in the divorce and I am concerned about what this will do where the trustee is concerned. If 7200 was concealed and later found out...what would happen? Could we be in legal trouble? Criminal trouble?

Also, I recently logged into the trustee's website for the first time in 3 years. I was shocked to find that my creditors were NOT on the list. All that I truly had was a defaulted credit card (around 4500) and I KNOW that it was on the initial list of creditors to notify...but it's NOT on the list. I called the credit card company and they are not sure what happened but they are waiting for me to be out from under BK protection so that they can come after me again. Can debts be added to a bankruptcy after being in it for 3 years? I can't figure out why this wasn't included in the plan...NONE of MY bills were included in the plan...only the husband's 80K in debt and the house I have now lost.

I've left messages for my attorney, who happens to be a relative of my ex's mistress...of course, no calls back. HELP?

[BigJohn]

Was this a joint bankruptcy?

Are you working?

Have you thought of doing a chapter 7?

[hereforinfo]

Is the ex's employer going to report this bonus/income to the irs? Were income taxes withheld? If so, he's going to be found out and this could be a big problem for both of you.

I'm editing because I just went back and read your prior post. So the debt, other than a few thousand, is in his name only? If that's the case, you need to get out of the 13 if at all possible. The little bit of debt left in your name ($4500) can be managed without bankruptcy. I would try and find your own bankruptcy attorney, do a consultation to see if you can get a better idea of your options as an individual.

[killinstinct]

Wow! When we hired our attorney, I noticed language in the contract that he was working for both of us...something like we were one entity like a corporation or something. He did not represent us individually and would work in our combined best interests, if that makes sense. Sounds like breach of fiduciary duty (on part of attorney) to me at first glance. Do you have a retainer contract/agreement? He should be contacting you. There's no excuse for that.

[rrockinggramma]

wow so in addition to worrying about the trustee, you are also worrying about your ex husband accusing you of stealing. Do you have a separate divorce attorney for yourself or are you going this alone?

Because your bk attorney is somewhat related to the entire mess, I would suggest asking your divorce attorney if he/she knows a decent bk attorney that could possibly take on your representation or at least talk to you and tell you where you would stand with the BK and the 3500.

Who is making the payments in this chapter13? Since it is all your ex's debt (by the way I really do think your debt is discharged even if not on the petition. I mean come on, your cc company hasn't contacted you in 3 years to find out why you aren't paying? I think they are looking for a free ride there so be careful what you offer to pay back. But anyway, generally in a divorce the bk would continue to go forward unless someone stops making the payments.

I wish you the best in this mess.

[catleg]

Go into pacer Pacer link and check out you actual filing and make sure your debt is represented. Could be they simply never filed a proof of claim.

You maybe able to use the fact that he needs the ch13 more than you do as leverage in the divorce case, to get a better deal. (this is ch13 so there is either assets or income).

I think you can drop out of the ch13 but it wouldn't automatically close the case (it would be a bifurcation), however, you could also drop a dime on him to the trustee about hiding the bonus from the court, that would cost him money.

[Flamingo]

There might potentiallly be a conflict of interest as to your BK attorney now in your situation. You need some good legal advice and I would highly suggest you go over all this with your divorce attorney (if you don't have one, get a good one) and ensure in the paperwork that your husband is responsible for attorney's fees.

[AngelinaCatHub]

I think you can drop out of the ch13 but it wouldn't automatically close the case (it would be a bifurcation), however, you could also drop a dime on him to the trustee about hiding the bonus from the court, that would cost him money.

I agree totally, with this. Split out from the 13, drop a line to the Trustee regarding his infidelity, include the association of the tramp with the lawyer, and that you have been "set up" in the prepaid credit card "swindle". Everything I just said, is true and happened to you. Throw the bum under the bus. 'Hub

[rrockinggramma]

maybe the lawyer that posts here can enlighten us on this subject but I don't think she can drop out of the bk per say. When my ex and I were going through this, the attorney we had at the time said that the trustee only cares about the payments being made each month. That it didn't matter who made them and that it was a joint filing and that was how it would stand. It doesn't sound like the payments to the trustee is the issue here because the ex is obviously seeing that they get paid since he stands to lose the most if the bk is dismissed. So in that regard the OP might be stuck but if she isn't paying the trustee, then it only helps her and doesn't hurt her. However I believe that it might be in her best interest to try and get the Bk completely dismissed and then wait a while and refile on her own. THis ex sounds like a real winner and I am sure he wouldn't think twice about walking away from joint debt (like the house she was ask to leave etc) and sticking her with the deficiency difference. She might want to explore all of her options in this regard but to do so, she needs a "neutral" attorney that could actually give HER advice on the best course of action.

Her other worry is Amex and the fact that her husband is accusing her of STEALING the 3500. Amex will definitely go after her for this 3500 and make her pay it back and will pursue her in court to get it. That is her issue right now. Hopefully her divorce attorney can defend her in this but it is a "he said she said" and Amex won't care about that. What they will care about is the fact that her ex told Amex she took the money without permission and they will investigate and indeed see that she used the money and will come after her for it with both guns firing. Now if the OP pays Amex the money back, nothing more will come of it but if she doesn't have it to pay back, then hopefully her divorce attorney can convince Amex that this is a process in a nasty divorce and that no fraud or stealing was involved. But Amex will NOT be happy because they are out the 3500. So they will go after the weak link and that will be the OP.

So to me, the bk is secondary in all of this because it can be dealt with after she gets past the issue with Amex.

The trustee could go after the bonus but the worst case scenario there would be that he would dismiss the bk and then NOT allow a refile on THOSE DEBTS etc. Well according to her post, that would effect the EX more than her. So to me, that is an issue that is resolvable and can be dealt with after she gets past AMEX.

Plus, has anyone notified the trustee that this bonus even happened? (if tax returns are required then the staff could notice it but it is a ways down the road if that is the case)

[AngelinaCat]

Wow! When we hired our attorney, I noticed language in the contract that he was working for both of us...something like we were one entity like a corporation or something. He did not represent us individually and would work in our combined best interests, if that makes sense. Sounds like breach of fiduciary duty (on part of attorney) to me at first glance. Do you have a retainer contract/agreement? He should be contacting you. There's no excuse for that.

Yes, at least in Florida, when a couple hires an attorney, the attorney works for the couple. If they want the attorney to represent only one individual of the couple, paperwork has to be signed and filed in the client's folder reflecting that.

I hope the OP has copies of all the paperwork, but I'll bet she doesn't.

[tennessee]

Was this a joint bankruptcy?

Yes, it was. We are both on the 13 but none of MY debt, aside from the house, is on the creditor list getting payments. I just don't get it. Before filing 13 in 2006, I had disputed several things on my credit report. The 4500 credit card came back as a valid debt, remained on my credit report and then was listed in the creditors to be paid when I filed the 13...but they aren't on the list of creditors being paid. So I filed 13 and they just wrote it off? If my attorney would call back maybe I could find out what happened.

Are you working?

Yes. Always worked the entire time I was in this relatoinship and the 13. I am subcontracted though so it was impossible to garnish my wages. That is why the payments have been garnished from the husband's check all of these years.

Have you thought of doing a chapter 7?

I have thought of it. I don't want to. I'd rather be dismissed, strike a deal on my debts and pay them off myself. I do NOT want to convert to a 7 and it will only be a last resort. A last, complete and final resort only.

wow so in addition to worrying about the trustee, you are also worrying about your ex husband accusing you of stealing. Do you have a separate divorce attorney for yourself or are you going this alone?

No separate divorce attorney. I cannot afford one...I have 7 days to answer his complaint for divorce, I'm having to do it pro se, I've lost my house, the money that I was given to walk away from it and I was just about to agree to stay on a 13 with him for 2 years (losing my income tax refunds for the next 2 years) when I now find that my debt isn't even INCLUDED in the bankruptcy in the first place.

I have lost pretty much everything...if you heard this rest of this story, you would realize what a loser my ex is...I did get a call from the BK attorney (Mistressess aunt) a few weeks ago. It seems my ex had gone in, wanting pay off information on the 13. He was going to try to get financing and pay it out in order to get refinancing also for the house so that I would need to give him a quit claim within 30 days. The attorney then says "He's a big boy. If he wants to do this to get his house in the clear and get out of this mess he can do that." I ask how it effects me and get told "Now, wait a minute here...if you start this I am going to HAVE to drop this case...no exceptions. Now I am going to send you the paperwork you need to fill out to get this payout information....is your address XXX?"

I wish that I had money for an attorney who would actually help me...this is so wrong...all of this is just wrong.

Plus, has anyone notified the trustee that this bonus even happened? (if tax returns are required then the staff could notice it but it is a ways down the road if that is the case)

No...the trustee has not been notified. I have NO idea what is going to come of all of this. With the Amex, I've been told by attorneys that TN is a community property state, being his wife and that I have emails certified using readnotify.com from the husband showing his giving me authorized use of this card, he cannot legally file a dispute...Nice...but he HAS. See, that is what no one gets. Every attorney I talk to tells me that "he can't do that...you were his wife...he can't file unauthorized use charges on you.." I say "But he did. The charge has been reversed. I sent it to my sister 3 1/2 months ago through paypal to find me a home in my home state and her account is now 3500 in the negative because the 3500 charge was REVERSED. He got the money back. My sister's ebay business is frozen and I don't have 3500 to give her." They just look at me like "Huh? But he can't do that." It's like a broken record. Me: "He did." They: "He can't." Over and over.


I hope the OP has copies of all the paperwork, but I'll bet she doesn't.

You're right. I don't. The husband got us set up on the BK and handled most of the work, plus kept the important paperwork at his office. When I discussed the pending divorce with the attorney back in April, I got a letter in the mail saying that as long as husband and I worked together they would continue to represent us. If we began working against each other, we are dropped. That's fair. I totally get it.

[tennessee]

Let me just add this...you gotta get the full picture here of what a lowlife I am dealing with. After he filed the amex dispute, taking back the 3500 he allowed me to have to leave the home, I panicked, asked by email why and how could he do this after everything he has done in the past...He told me that it was all my fault. I had music CD's that he wanted (like 12 or so) and if I would send him $775 and sign the mda as it was (It didn't include some important details and benefited him greatly) he would cancel the dispute against my sister and I...

Sounds like extortion, right? I talk to some people...turns out if he had done this to anyone except for his WIFE, he could be in serious trouble...but since he and I were married, it was perfectly legal. I very badly need an attorney but money doesn't grow on trees.

[AngelinaCat]

See if there is a Legal Aid service in your community. I hope you are in a large enough area to have one. You and your sister need help with this.

[tennessee]

Legal aid cannot help me unfortunately. The amex claim is a possible "criminal" charge...Legal aid in that area cannot assist individuals in criminal matters. It's a state guideline.

[rrockinggramma]

Is there legal aid in your state? You need an attorney big time. This is a mess and I feel for you.

Because Tenessee is community property state, then your debts are included even if not listed because the discharge will cover everything.

It sounds like the attorney is trying to pull a fast one. Right now I would REFUSE to sign anything. Hopefully your sister is still talking to you and understands your plight about the 3500.

So you do have the emails where it states he gave you permission to use the 3500? Then I would write a letter to Amex and to the divorce court and send them Return Receipt Requested.

Keep copies of EVERYTHING!! all emails and all correspondance. Become your OWN best friend here and start researching.

Research the divorce laws and the community property laws in your state. If you can't afford an attorney then you need to help yourself here. I know you are emotional and in a bad way but pull yourself up by the bootstraps and help yourself as best you can.

But I would respond to the complaint YOURSELF. I would write a letter, make copies of those emails and explain WHY you do not owe this money back and that Amex needs to reverse the 3500 action. But send it to AMEX fraud investigation unit (which is where the ex filed the complaint) and let them know that you did NOT commit fraud. Forget about hearing that "he can't do it" You are right, he did it so now it is up to you to get yourself out of this mess.

But right now the first step you need to take is to get yourself together and fight back.

Write that letter today and copy it to your ex, to the divorce attorney and to Amex. Let them know in no uncertain terms that no fraud was committed and you have the emails to prove it. And that because of the conflict of interest involving the affair of your soon to be ex and the attorney you are reporting the ethics violation to the state bar association and demand that that be supplied with another attorney paid for by the ex to represent you in all of this mess. Keep us posted