Figuring The Numbers for 13

[Ckacrum]

I want to say first of all this site has been a great find for me and my family. I would like to run some numbers by to see what everyone thinks. I have used the search function, but my anxiety is making me ask these questions.

We have found a pretty good attorney and he ran the numbers, i'm assuming from the means test and we qualify for a 7 or 13. Due to wanting to strip our 2nd mortgage we will be better served going 13, he says. He calculated roughly that our payback payment would be around 365.00 a month for 5 years based on our debt of 60,000, including fee's. I think the % was 3. I forgot to get a copy of the plan he whipped up for browsing.

Well, I ran the means test online myself and yes, we are under the median and very short monthly. A negative DMI of -775.00 for a family of 4 in Indiana. Though if all goes through, with our remaining mortgage, payback, and living expenises(irs expensies) we will be right at our monthly income based on the last six months of 4000.00 a month average. I'm thinking he figured that and thats where he came up with the 365.00 for a monthly payback. He seems pretty confident that the trustee will approve this. Maybe there in bed together, i don't know. lol

Question: Though they use the IRS statistic's for figuring your expensies, and ours are nowhere near the irs's, do we still have to fill out an expence report with our lawyer? If we do, say ours comes in under what the irs standard is, do they still use the irs standard? Say you get 1370 for clothing and household needs, but we can only come in at 1000 maybe, do they use our number instead or does the lawyer help us get the figure up to meet.
If we've been getting by skimpin' lets say at 800 a month for everything, would the trustee maybe say, hell, you all can pay double your payment if you can do that, forget what the IRS says.

Reason, I can not fathom having the ability to use what the IRS says the average is on my family. I could actually buy things like clothes and household goods. Afford getting the cars repaired. Afford to pay property taxes and my kids school fee's without having to skip a bill and get further behind.

What other advice do you have? What other questions can we ask? I'm driving my wife crazy with my anxiety to the point she's ready to throw divorce in there with the bankruptcy. lol

Thank you!!

[lrprn]

Question: Though they use the IRS statistic's for figuring your expensies, and ours are nowhere near the irs's, do we still have to fill out an expence report with our lawyer?

On the Means Test, your lawyer has to use the required figures. However, on the Schedules, your lawyer can adjust to use your real figures.

If we do, say ours comes in under what the irs standard is, do they still use the irs standard?

On the Means Test, yes. On the Schedules, your lawyer can adjust to use your real figures.

If we've been getting by skimpin' lets say at 800 a month for everything, would the trustee maybe say, hell, you all can pay double your payment if you can do that, forget what the IRS says.

The Means Test and Schedules are set by law to a certain extent. There's always a bit of 'wiggle room' your lawyer can use to ensure the plan he creates is livable for five years.

What other questions can we ask?

About your Means Test and Schedules, ask your lawyer the same questions you asked us. Also find out how your lawyer likes to be contacted. Ask how long it usually takes him to return a call or email. Ask how your trustee handles tax refunds while the plan is active. Ask how your trustee handles significant increases in income. Ask how your trustee handles significant, long-lasting new expenses.

I'm driving my wife crazy with my anxiety to the point she's ready to throw divorce in there with the bankruptcy. lol

When your anxiety gets the best of you, post your worries here. We'll do our best to help you sort things out. Life will be less stressful once you get more solid answers from your lawyer.

One last question to ask you.....thinking in a cold, hard business way (no emotions allowed), will you be better off financially in the long run if you file a Ch 13 being under your state's median income for your family size just to strip your second mortgage and be under the court's control for 3-5 years, or file a 7 and get rid of all your unsecured debt, have to keep both mortgages, but be done and move on in 90-120 days?

[Ckacrum]

Thank you for your reply.

I guess what i'm having trouble wrapping my brain around is the expences. For the last 9 months whenever we went shopping at Wal Mart, the 150.00 we spent was setting us back that much a week. We had zero left after paying bills! We were robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Our lawyer, in my opinion is going to have to really try hard with us to get our figures close. I do have check registers from the last 9 month's and he's going to be more than welcome to look at them and try to decifier whatever he can.

[andy158]

If you are going the bk13 route, here is what I did. Go through everything you can think of for your expenses. I have an allowance for pet expenses in my plan of $85/mo! Take a note pad with you everyday and write down everything you buy each day down to a pack of gum at the convenient store. You will be amazed at the money you spend in a week. In one month break those figures into catagories of food, clothing, household, etc. Try not to miss a thing and don't forget your quarterly or semi annually payments of taxes, car insurance, etc. My lawyer is no accountant, so I gave him all of my calculations and he sorted them out as to what the trustee would accept as reasonable. Works out I can save a little each month for our emergency fund.