Last minute claim - under the gun

[simon2020]

OK - so my plan is confirmed, however, I had a 90-day deadline for my unsecured creditors to file their claim if they wanted to be part of my ch. 13 plan.

Deadline is 7/20/09.

Creditor files on Saturday, 7/18/09 -- I verified this on PACER.

I also check National Data Center and it does not show up as an official claim.

Furthermore, when I received my confirming papers along with the list of creditors the trustee will be making payments to, guess what? That last creditor worth almost $10k - and filed during the weekend (is that possible and legal?) was not listed as a creditor for the plan going forward.

Questions:

1. Is it possible they were considered LATE by my trustee and striked off the list --- even if they filed during the weekend before Monday, the 20th?

2. My paperwork does not list them - but is there any chance they might challenge the trustee - EVEN IF I AM OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED?

Thanks.

[justbroke]

1. Is it possible they were considered LATE by my trustee and striked off the list --- even if they filed during the weekend before Monday, the 20th?

No. They have until Midnight on the 20th, so they were fine filing on Saturday or Sunday or, even Monday until 11:59pm.

2. My paperwork does not list them - but is there any chance they might challenge the trustee - EVEN IF I AM OFFICIALLY CONFIRMED?

No, you can't challenge the Trustee. The only thing you could do is challenge the claim (submit an objection to Claim). You would, of course, need grounds to do so. Them filing "before" the claims bar date, is not any grounds to do so.

Unsecured creditors are generally treated as a pool. They receive a pro-rata share of your disposable monthly income. It's not like your payments are going to go up (unless you're in a Plan that requires you to pay 100% of the allowed unsecured claims).

[simon2020]

No. They have until Midnight on the 20th, so they were fine filing on Saturday or Sunday or, even Monday until 11:59pm.

No, you can't challenge the Trustee. The only thing you could do is challenge the claim (submit an objection to Claim). You would, of course, need grounds to do so. Them filing "before" the claims bar date, is not any grounds to do so.

Unsecured creditors are generally treated as a pool. They receive a pro-rata share of your disposable monthly income. It's not like your payments are going to go up (unless you're in a Plan that requires you to pay 100% of the allowed unsecured claims).

"I" am not challenging the trustee. I think you got it backwards. I meant since they were NOT included in my final papers -- would and could they challenge the trustee regarding the date they filed?

And yes, I am in a 100% plan so I am thrilled if it's true they were "Written" out of my plan because I did my calculations and I will stop paying the trustee 1 year early!!!

[lrprn]

If I understand your question correctly.....as JB said, the creditor in question filed a claim within the allowed timeframe. However, I believe any objection to your case had to be filed by your 90-day deadline as well.

However, since this creditor filed late in the 90-day cycle and your case appears to have been confirmed before this creditor filed, if the creditor did have an objection to your case, they could petition the court requesting an extension. Doesn't mean the judge will grant it though. The creditor would have to prove that they weren't able to respond to the court in a timely manner for some acceptable reason to get the extension.

Talk with your lawyer, but chances are this creditor is not going to file an objection to your plan. They would have filed a claim and their objection to your plan before your 341 and certainly before your confirmation was approved by your trustee.

Just curious....what's worrying you about this particular creditor? Do they have a good reason to object to your plan?

[simon2020]

If I understand your question correctly.....as JB said, the creditor in question filed a claim within the allowed timeframe. However, I believe any objection to your case had to be filed by your 90-day deadline as well.

However, since this creditor filed late in the 90-day cycle and your case appears to have been confirmed before this creditor filed, if the creditor did have an objection to your case, they could petition the court requesting an extension. Doesn't mean the judge will grant it though. The creditor would have to prove that they weren't able to respond to the court in a timely manner for some acceptable reason to get the extension.

Talk with your lawyer, but chances are this creditor is not going to file an objection to your plan. They would have filed a claim and their objection to your plan before your 341 and certainly before your confirmation was approved by your trustee.

Just curious....what's worrying you about this particular creditor? Do they have a good reason to object to your plan?

Thanks for the input on my question --- no I am not worried about this creditor, I am just "crossing-my-fingers" excited that my confirming papers listing all creditors who have officially been accepted by the trustee ---- and they ARE NOT ON THIS LIST. It's as if the trustee just showed them the door and said, too late, game over.

The gist of my question is could their lawyers somehow make a big deal about why they were not inlcuded in my plan - that's it. I guess if I don't hear anything within the next 2 months or so, I'm home free and like I said, I project I will be paying 48 months and not 60 months which would be like a gift to me!

[rrockinggramma]

I believe you are basing your hope that this creditor will not be paid on the paperwork you received from the trustee when your plan was confirmed. this creditor was not listed because the claim had not been received. However, I was confirmed in November 05 and my creditors had until Jan 06 to file a claim. So, this creditor will be paid in your plan because they filed before the deadline. the paperwork you received from the trustee was what was valid at the time it was sent out. I bet you receive another update from the trustee and you will see this creditor included.

[ccfriend]

My plan was confirmed in August of 08 and my creditors had until October to file a claim. Most of my claims were filed in Sept.

[HHM]

Confirmation and the claims bar date are UNRELATED.

If the creditor filed their claim before the claim bar date, that claim IS IN.

It is that simple. You are over thinking this.

[justbroke]

The gist of my question is could their lawyers somehow make a big deal about why they were not inlcuded in my plan - that's it.

As I included in my prior post, they are in as an allowed claim. If the Trustee doesn't make distributions to them they will talk with the Trustee. I don't know why this concerns you. as it's a case administration issue. Generally speaking, the unsecured creditors don't receive any real money until the last few months of the Plan anyhow. The Trustee will deal with paying off secured and priority unsecured debt first before ever paying the unsecured creditors.

Other things to know, the National Data Center runs 4-6 weeks behind the court. The NDC is used by the Trustees and is not an "Official Court" resource. What's on your claims register and docket in PACER, is what's official.

[simon2020]

As I included in my prior post, they are in as an allowed claim. If the Trustee doesn't make distributions to them they will talk with the Trustee. I don't know why this concerns you. as it's a case administration issue. Generally speaking, the unsecured creditors don't receive any real money until the last few months of the Plan anyhow. The Trustee will deal with paying off secured and priority unsecured debt first before ever paying the unsecured creditors.

Other things to know, the National Data Center runs 4-6 weeks behind the court. The NDC is used by the Trustees and is not an "Official Court" resource. What's on your claims register and docket in PACER, is what's official.

First of all, yes, I know National Data is not the "official" source for checking on claims. I have an account on Pacer as well and have tracked the information over there as well.

Secondly, I was confirmed early May.

Thirdly, my attorney did speak with the trustee and it is correct - that last creditor WILL NOT be in my plan!!!

I've already passed the 90 day mark and my plan WILL BE 12 months shorter than was projected.

Am I worried about it now? NO!

I'm thrilled as heck!!!

[justbroke]

Just a couple of things...

Thirdly, my attorney did speak with the trustee and it is correct - that last creditor WILL NOT be in my plan!!!

Not in Plan, but certainly "in" as far as the claims bar date and is now (apparently) a claim to which there is no objection from you or your lawyer.

The creditor could wait until the last minute, when your Trustee hasn't paid them any money, and file an Objection to Discharge. The (unsecured) creditor might even file a Motion to Modify Confirmed Plan, if they see money on the table, that they are not getting. Since your District confirms plans before the claims bar date, this puts you in a precarious situation, if you ask me. If you're lucky, the creditor will do nothing, but it seems like $10K is a lot and they could get greedy and want some of your Plan money. Now, of course, what I write is all speculative, but is within the realm of possibility. Probable? No. Possible? Certainly.

Am I worried about it now? NO!

That's the spirit.

[Dagg25]

HI I am a new investor. I live in Baltimore. Right now I am wholesaling in the hopes of making enough money to one day buy and hold. I also want to get into REO's but I dont know a lot about it. If anyone can offer any suggestions I would certainly appreciate it. If there is anyway I may be of help to you please ask. I have learned a lot from this site already and I know I am going to be spending a lot of time here. I look forward to hearing from you all. Any other Marylanders out there who would like to do somethings together let me know

[Dagg25]

thanks to all for all information.............