Becoming fearful of filing a 13...

[hearr]

Since talking with an attorney yesterday and being advised to file a 13, I have read a lot of different posts off this forum. And as to 13, I have to say that many of them make me very nervous. I read the sticky about "What is your best advice for surviving a 13." And many of the posts in there really confuse me.
It sounds like during the entire 13 (5 years in my case), there is pretty much almost routine contact with the attorney and/or Trustee. I also read where folks say they have started a savings account since the filing and are putting money away on a savings plan. I thought that after a 13 payment was determined, there wouldn't be money left for savings & if there was, it had to be turned over/reported to the courts. I also thought that once the payment plan is figured & once that monthly 13 payment was made, there was nothing left to spend on anything other that utilities, groceries and only the bare essentials. It has just sounded from a lot of what I've read that a 13 is no picnic & you're constantly under scrutiny. This part concerns me because I'm under stress now from creditors and the whole reason for my filing is to get relief and be able to sleep at night. If I'm constantly worrying about the courts/trustee, I don't see that as any better.
Sorry this is so long, but I'm just apprehensive. I must admit that years ago I unfortunately had to file a Chaper 7 and it was the easiest thing I had ever done. I immediately after filing started getting a fresh start. The only reason I am having to consider a 13 is my health and a recent poor diagnosis.
Any input would be appreciated.

Ken

[rpg1977]

I have only made my first payment, but I think when you see that people are "saving" money, they are further tweeking their budget and putting away the little extra they can find. Like if they budgeted 400 a month for groceries and for some reason only spent 325 that month because they found some coupons..then they put the 75 away to save. Or if they were allowed 50 a month for entertainment and didn't quite spend that, they put that away.

If you have a good lawyer, the plan will not be that bad. It will definetly teach you to live within your means. Yes, you are reporting to the trustee and have to make sure your payments get there on time, but if you work out a good budget and make sure you account for EVERYTHING over the entire year, it is doable. Trustees allow for home maintenance and medical expenses in the budget. Some even allow for entertainment expenses. List EVERYTHING..even things you only pay once a year and break it into a monthly average. Be reasonable. If you put down you need 500 a month for a cell phone bill, of course they are not going to go for that.

It IS better than fighting with the creditors. With the creditors, you never know when the cycle will end or if it will ever end. Interest rates go up, minimum payments go up. With the Ch 13 plan, you know there is an end in site if you follow the rules for 3-5 years. Its not that long. You will KNOW there is a fresh start, not wondering if there is going to be a million phone calls a day from people asking for money.

Good luck! There are some people on here who have a more experience than I do, Im sure they can help.

[unclerico]

Hi

My wife and I filed a 13 last week, we are going to see the atty today to finalize our budget and other expenses. I have been a bit nervous about it also but as the other poster said, you won't have the headache of running from creditors, lawsuits, and bank levies!

I would rather have some stress because of living on a budget than having to deal with aggressive bill collectors.

Anyway, if you like, when I get home I will post details of the submitted plan so that you can see a real life example of what to expect.

[Ann]

Please post the details of your plan. I would be so interested in seeing what it is like. Thanks!

[deerme]

Change the way you live and you will find lots of things to save on. Totally worth it to get those creditors to stop bothering you!

For example, I quit smoking, quit using the dryer, keep most lights off in my house, learned to ask friends for help when something breaks on my car or house. Heck I did so good that one month the electric company owed me money! (every other month was an estimate and I over paid)

It can be done because I just finished it. I am a much better person because of it. Tough road but doable!

Good luck!

[sassiebaz]

I have made 3 payments, about to make my fourth. I haven't talked to my attorney in over a month. Other than to call and tell them I was surrendering vehicle, blah blah blah. I have never been contacted by the trustee. I haven't had any questions arise about our plan. Now, I am not suggesting that none of that couldn't happen down the road. BUt, so far so good. Our situation was a little easier than most. We only did a 13 as we filed a 7 in 2003. Income wise, we qualified for a seven and still may convert in two years. I feel ch13 is the "lesser of two evils" so to speak. I'd much rather deal with my lawyer and the trustee than our nasty creditors...ANYDAY!

[woeisme]

We are 2 years into our CH 13 plan. Much better off financially than we were before filing! We have managed to save some every month to cover those unexpected bills. Right now savings are pretty low since we took 2 trips this summer (1 to Washington D.C. for some job related stuff and one to Iowa to see relatives and friends) but will be eventually be getting reimbursed $1500 for the D.C. trip and that will all go straight into the safe for our emergency fund again. The only time we've had to "report" to the trustee is when we initiated it due to changes we were requesting in our plan. Our trustee doesn't require tax return forms or anything, as long as we send in our check he doesn't bother us at all, and how we spend our remaining $ is totally our choice. I know some trustees are more hands-on than ours, but it's not like he's checking your checkbook on a regular basis or that you have to report how much you spent on school supplies to him or anything!

[rpg1977]

We dont have to turn our tax returns in either. We do have to give them anything over 1600 of our refund..but we dont have to report every single extra thing we get. I will report something HUGE, like a big raise, but Im not going to report the extra couple bucks I get for babysitting.

[zeezee]

Ann

I filed last week as well and here is some of the things my attorney has put in my plan (Schedule J)

MTG - 3000
ELECTRIC/GAS - 345
WATER - 125
CBL/CELL/PHN/INTERNET - 185
HOME MAINT UPKEEP - 75
FOOD - 433
CLOTHING - 85
LAUNDRY - 20
MED/DENTAL -60
TRANSPORTATION - 245
RECREATION - 125
HM INS - 110
CAR INS - 107
REAL ESTATE TX - 400
STUDENT LOANS - 335
PERSONAL NECESSITIES - 50
CONTINGENT EXPENSES - 350

Because my income is high, on the means test it looked as if I had over $2500 a month in DMI. My attorney says that they are not going to use that for a basis of what I have left over but the they use the Schedule J and what is left over on that. Hope this help you get an idea.
Oh, I am a single filer no dependents, in SE Virginia.

[unclerico]

Hi

I just had my meeting with the atty and paralegal. We are in pretty good shape, far better than we were.

Our weekly payment is $353.00 which leaves me about $800/wk and my wife's part time job brings home $400/mo + tips. (tips are not recorded with her job)

5 week months will be a bonus for us because we will be able to bank all of it into savings!

The payment covers the car which is crammed down, the mortgage and arrears, back state taxes, and 30% of the unsecured debt. We will be able to save far more money now than we have been for years.

I had asked them if the Trustee will object to the 30% payback being too low. I was told that our situation is very common, only that more often they are able to get as little as 0-10% to unsecured with incomes similar to ours.

She reassured me that there will not be any problems with the proposed plan. They file a lot of chapter 13 cases monthly and most are smooth sailing unless questionable things transpired before filing BK, such as cash advances and transferring property.

I hope all goes well when we have our 341 and confirmation. If so, the BK will be a huge relief for us and we will be able to save some money every month and we will not have to live like peasants.

[zeezee]

Oh yeah, I forgot to say based on my plan I have about $800 a month left over to save and play around with thanks to the contingent allowance and entertainment, clothing and recreation (which I don't spend anywhere near that much each month). I can also save on food, dental and water (that was so high because I had a leak in my pool for a few months so it pushed my water expenses way up). So there you go!

[hearr]

I'm the original poster of this thread & I guess the reason I'm so fearful/confused is that what I have read throughout this forum & what the attorney that I had the initial meeting with yesterday told me seem to be so much different. When I asked about some of the secured debts I have (furniture stores, appliances, etc) and does he know for sure they all will accept my plan, he says there will be no problem there at all. I just don't want to end up having them all want to come & repossess our furnishings.
I am also surrendering one of our vehicles. He says that will be handled outside the plan and all I need to do is call them & voluntarily surrender it. I am so afraid they will still get a judgement for the deficiency & attach our bank account, particularly since they are not being included in the plan. He says they will not. Keep in mind, we live in Texas, but I don't believe that has anything to do with it.
He just makes it sound so simple...and I've always heard that a 13 can be very painful & rigid. But again, he doesn't make it sound that way. I've always been someone who believed if something sounded too good to be true, it usually was. Particulary after he figured all my bills vs. income & did the means test. The amount of monthly payment under the plan is so much less than all the bills together, it is just hard to believe.

Ken

[sassiebaz]

I'm the original poster of this thread & I guess the reason I'm so fearful/confused is that what I have read throughout this forum & what the attorney that I had the initial meeting with yesterday told me seem to be so much different. When I asked about some of the secured debts I have (furniture stores, appliances, etc) and does he know for sure they all will accept my plan, he says there will be no problem there at all. I just don't want to end up having them all want to come & repossess our furnishings.
I am also surrendering one of our vehicles. He says that will be handled outside the plan and all I need to do is call them & voluntarily surrender it. I am so afraid they will still get a judgement for the deficiency & attach our bank account, particularly since they are not being included in the plan. He says they will not. Keep in mind, we live in Texas, but I don't believe that has anything to do with it.
He just makes it sound so simple...and I've always heard that a 13 can be very painful & rigid. But again, he doesn't make it sound that way. I've always been someone who believed if something sounded too good to be true, it usually was. Particulary after he figured all my bills vs. income & did the means test. The amount of monthly payment under the plan is so much less than all the bills together, it is just hard to believe.

Ken

Is there anyway you can live on cash for the timeframe of your BK? Cash your check somewhere and pay bills with money orders or in person with cash? We dont ever write checks now. Although I knwo the laws are diff. in Texas regarding judgements and whatnot. There has to be some way of avoiding a creditor attaching a judgment. Also, whats the deal with handling the surrender outside the plan? We surrendered our vehicles and they are included in our plan. Although we have a ZERO payback plan so they wont be getting anything!

[klandsb]

Hi Ken... I feel your pain. I am a single women w/2 grown children. I have about 30,000 in credit card debt.. I have had a pretty decent income the past couple yrs. My debt was incured after a divorce and raising my kids. Last yr my son graduated and I lost the child support that use to pay the credit cards. Since then its been a downward spiral. Yes, I feel like it was my fault because I didnt plan well in advance and yes I am a compulsive buyer at times.. (have worked hard on that and much better now). Anyway, I too like you am concerned about not having any money left over each month , but then again, wait, its been like that for the past yr anyway.
This morning Chase collection lawyer called. I owe them 12,000. There offer was this
No More Interest. I can pay $1000 a mth for 10 mths and they will forgive the rest of I can come up with $8000 cash this weekend and pay them next week and they will forget the rest .... HELLO, if I had $8000 laying around I wouldnt be in this mess..
My boyfriend is TOTALLY against me filing bankruptcy..He says I will be blacklisted for the rest of my life... He thinks there has to be another way out. I tried the Debt Settelment Company route and got sued which is why I have to decide soon what to do..
I am wondering w/roughly $30,000 unsecured debt what is the most my pmts could be on a 100% payback plan... My 20 yr old son lives with me and has a minimum wage job. He got cut back to 32 hr a wk.. The attorney I spoke w/said its considered a 2 person household but only a 1 person household on the means test ..confused me there ?? Anyway, I have another appt w/him next Thursday...I am thinking this is going to be the way I have to go... I see no other alternative at this time... I want to keep my house and my car. Both have a very reasonable pmt on them but I am hoping he can give me some numbers next week so I know what I am looking at.
Seems like the more I read on here the more confused I get about somethings but yet I find it helpful too..
Good Luck to you... Its a tough life sometimes but I am taking it one day at a time and doing the best I can...

[hearr]

Is there anyway you can live on cash for the timeframe of your BK? Cash your check somewhere and pay bills with money orders or in person with cash? We dont ever write checks now. Although I knwo the laws are diff. in Texas regarding judgements and whatnot. There has to be some way of avoiding a creditor attaching a judgment. Also, whats the deal with handling the surrender outside the plan? We surrendered our vehicles and they are included in our plan. Although we have a ZERO payback plan so they wont be getting anything!

This tells me I need to ask him more questions. I don't even know what a zero payback plan is. (I thought the purpose of a 13 was so that some creditors did at least get something as opposed to a 7 where they get nothing). He didn't use the phrase zero payback at all. He did tell me that my unsecured creditors would get nothing, but he showed me on his worksheet that my (3) secured creditors (consisting of an auto, furniture & appliances) would get a portion even though the amount he showed was a lot less than what I actually owe them.
As to why the one vehicle (we want to surrender) is not being included is beyond me. He just said I could call them and tell them to pick it up. He insisted they could not get a judgement against me, which I really don't understand. I just don't have a warm feeling about this, but his office handles tons of BK's in our area here in Texas.

Ken