Moved from Florida, which exemptions

[LMT]

We moved from FLorida march 2009. We currently live in Alabama. I spoke with one lawyer and he said we would use Florida exemptions. I spoke to another one and he said he thought to use Florida you had to reside in that state. That we may use Federal Exemptions. He mentioned he would check and give me a call next week.
I just checked and it seems as if I would use the Federal, which would be great as we have a 2004 Ford F-250, will equity of 18,000. A 1994 car hauler worth approx. 2000.00 and a boat we purchased for $400. We live in a 5th wheel which we owe $24,000 and are upside down approx. 1000.00.
Is this correct can we us Federal or will we use Florida? I understand we cannot file until we have lived here in Alabama for 6 months, is this correct?
Thanks in advance for your help.

[falken]

You can use the federal exemptions after you have lived in the state for 91 days. There is no other requirement on how long you have to have lived in the state to be able to file.

Some states do not allow you to use their exemptions unless you currently live in that state, so that could rule out the option of using floridas at all.

[falken]

Ah... Alabama does not normally let you use federal (unless I have an old list). That makes it tricky, if florida does not allow theirs to be used out of state and alabama does not allow federal you are technially left with nothing to use.

Makes for a good question, let me know what the lawyer comes back with.

[LMT]

ALSO, if allowed to us Federal will I be able to apply homestead wildcard exemption to our vehicle?

[lrprn]

Ok, let's back up.

LMT moved from Florida to Alabama in March 2009. The current bk law allows you to file in a state after you've lived there for 91 days - that means you can file in Alabama. However, the law also states that you cannot use a state's exemptions until you've lived in the state for two years. That means you will have to use Florida's bk exemptions (updated in Jan 2009) - http://www.thebankruptcysite.org/exe...s/florida.html .

Florida allows you to use the federal supplemental exemptions - see those here http://www.bankruptcyinformation.com/exempt-supp.htm . These are *not* the same as using federal exemptions.

I see nothing here that allows you to transfer your FL home exemption and use it to protect your car. Sorry. However, do check with a lawyer knowledgeable about the FL exemptions to be certain it can't be done.

[LMT]

When viewing Florida's Exemptions it states you cannot use Florida Exemptions unless you reside in Florida. So....what exemptions do I use? Have I misunderstood this? Thanks, I appreciate your input.

[lrprn]

When viewing Florida's Exemptions it states you cannot use Florida Exemptions unless you reside in Florida. So....what exemptions do I use? Have I misunderstood this? Thanks, I appreciate your input.

I'm not sure where you are seeing this information. I did a quick search and on Jonathan Alber's website (he's a respected FL bk lawyer) at http://www.alperlaw.com/bankruptcy.html, he states:

"If you have not been a permanent resident of Florida for the two-year period immediately preceding your bankruptcy, then your bankruptcy exemptions will be those allowed by the state in which you were domiciled for 180 days immediately preceding the two-year period, or the state in which you were domiciled for the longer portion of such 180-day period.

Otherwise stated, a person filing bankruptcy in Florida today is eligible for the property exemptions he could have claimed if he had filed bankruptcy two years ago. If this person was a Florida resident two years ago, he claims Florida exemptions today...."

This "legalese" would seem to contradict whatever source you found. I believe that because Florida is the state where you "were domiciled" for the longer portion of the 180 day period mentioned, that you will be allowed to file in Alabama and use Florida's exemptions.

Worst case scenario is that even if a knowledgeable attorney tells you that you can't use FL's exemptions, then you are allowed to use the full Federal exemptions to file in GA - http://www.thebankruptcysite.org/exe...s/federal.html

Please be sure to get several solid legal opinions about which exemptions you can use from experienced bk attorneys in both GA and FL. Good luck - hope this all works out in your favor!

[LMT]

Actually when I knew I needed to file bankruptcy, I called and spoke with Mr. Alper and after I told him I had moved to Alabama, he stated I could not file in Florida. However, we did not discuss using Florida's Exemption and filing in Alabama.
I will take your advice and schedule another meeting with a third attorney.
Thanks again

[lrprn]

Actually when I knew I needed to file bankruptcy, I called and spoke with Mr. Alper and after I told him I had moved to Alabama, he stated I could not file in Florida.

Mr. Alper said you can't *file* bk in Florida because you no longer live in Florida. But you should still be able to use the Florida bk *exemptions* when you file in Georgia.

[LMT]

Spoke to my soon to be retained lawyer this morning. He stated I would be using Federal Exemptions and suggested Filing Chapter 7. Chapter 7 is good for me, but wondering what will happen if pushed into Chapter 13 as we have very little monthly payments and when Social Security is added to Form I our income comes up (minus living expenses) with approx. 600.00 left.
The "means test" shows us below median income. And even when we add social security our income is still below median.
Anyone have their Chapter 7 converted to 13, when your social security was added as income and you showed a DMI of around this amount?
Meeting with him on Thursday, but would like to know if anyone has had this happen and the conclusion, if any.

[lrprn]

Anyone have their Chapter 7 converted to 13, when your social security was added as income and you showed a DMI of around this amount?

Social security is *not* added as income for the Means Test.

Right on the Ch 7 form Part 2, Line 10, Income from Other Sources states clearly, "Do not include any benefits received under the Social
Security Act."

No worries - your SS won't be added into your gross income when you file . This is why your lawyer said you can file Ch 7. Happy news!

[LMT]

when Social Security is added to Form I our income comes up (minus living expenses) with approx. 600.00 left.

Will the trustee see this as being able to pay on unsecured debts and we will be converted to Chapter 13, since we can pay.
Thanks in advance

[lrprn]

when Social Security is added to Form I our income comes up (minus living expenses) with approx. 600.00 left.

Will the trustee see this as being able to pay on unsecured debts and we will be converted to Chapter 13, since we can pay.

LMT, did you read my earlier response? Social security is *NOT* repeat *NOT* added to your gross income when you file bankruptcy. It says that right on the Ch 7 bankruptcy filing forms B22A.

If you don't believe me, then check out the form yourself - http://www.uscourts.gov/rules/BK_For..._022A_1208.pdf . Go look at Part II, Line 10 where it states (and I quote) "Do not include any benefits received under the Social Security Act...." That's your social security.

If you *DO NOT* add your social security when calculating your Means Test figures, do you still show more than $150/month disposable income?

[LMT]

I don't think you understood my question.....Yes, I read your post and know that Social Security is not included in the Chapter 7 means test.

When all forms, along with my "Means Test", are filed including schedule I & J ("I" includes Social Security income) Is it possible trustee can see that I do have disposable income over the amount of $150.00? Meaning "presumption of abuse does arise" and debtor can pay if converted to Chapter 13.
I understand anything is possible with the trustee, just wondering if this has happen to anyone on the board.

SO QUESTION IS.....Has anyone or do you know of anyone who has filed Chapter 7, been converted to Chapter 13, because of schedule "J" (monthly expenses) showing over $150.00 DMI, when deducted from schedule "I" (all income, including Social Security)?

[LMT]

I'm trying to locate the article by Alper. That is where I read the trustee can question your DMI, after filing Chapter 7.