Show My Your............................Budget

[ameangreenbe]

OK folks. I've drafted my budget and now need your to critique it based on your CH13 experience. This part of the process is the most mysterious to me considering each trustee handles things differently. I appreciate any help you can provide.

Facts that will help
- Yearly Income of $136K
- Family of 5 (three kids)
- Expenses well supported by receipts for several months.

Amounts are monthly expenditures.

Utilities Electricity $275
Utilities Water & Sewer $72
Utilities Telephone $65
Utilities Other (gas) $95
Home Maint A/C Service Contract $16
Home Maint Pest Control $20
Home Maint Lawn Maintenance $20
Home Maint Misc supplies for maintenance $50
Food Food $1,158
Clothing Clothing $325
Clothing Laundry & Dry Cleaning $20
Medical Medical & Dental CoPays Primary $100
Medical Medical & Dental CoPays Specialists $210
Medical Medical & Dental Rx $120
Medical Eyeglasses/contacts $60
Transportation Transportation $600
Transportation Car Payment $411
Transportation Car Maintenance $100
Transportation Gasoline $100
Recreation Recreation $200
Charity Charity $60
Insurance Insurance - Car $300
Insurance Insurance - Health $353
Insurance Insurance - Life $45
Insurance Insurance - Dental $32
Insurance Life via PwC
Insurance LTD $31
Taxes Federal Taxes $2,243
Taxes Property Taxes $250
Taxes License Taxes $100
Childcare/Education School Fees - Daughter 1 $30
Childcare/Education School Supplies Daughter 1 $30
Childcare/Education School Lunches - Daughter 1 $30
Childcare/Education School Fees - Daughter 2 $391
Childcare/Education School Supplies - Daughter 2 $30
Misc Misc (including cell) $120
Housing HOA fees $90
Housing First Mortgage $2,000
Housing Second Mortgage $250
Gifts Birthday - Relatives $50
Gifts Christmas - Relatives $50
Gifts Birthday - Family $25
Gifts Christmas - Family $50
401K Contribution $1,805
401K Loan $126
Total Expenses $12,509
Gross Pay $11,283
Difference -$1,226

[falken]

OK folks. I've drafted my budget and now need your to critique it based on your CH13 experience. This part of the process is the most mysterious to me considering each trustee handles things differently. I appreciate any help you can provide.

What jumps out at me right away is $2100/year in gifts. Food may also be too high. The trustee is going to want to see a tightening of the belt, not you living a high lifestyle. Looks like you want to try for a 0% payback, with 136K income that is very unlikely, unless you have extreme medical expenses or other major unavoidable expenses.

[falken]

Oh, and they are not going to allow the 401k contribution that high. 401k is allowed, yes, but not that high of a percentage.

[optimistic1]

What state are you in? It looks good to me, reasonable on some of the misc expenses.

[aces67]

We only put $120 a month into dh's 401K and my lawyer thought that even that could be cut back some.

[ameangreenbe]

Show Me Your..........................................Budg et

What state are you in? It looks good to me, reasonable on some of the misc expenses.

I'm in Florida, Middle District.

I'm assuming the more detailed the budget is the better?

Is this correct?

[ameangreenbe]

Show Me Your..........................................Budg et

What jumps out at me right away is $2100/year in gifts. Food may also be too high. The trustee is going to want to see a tightening of the belt, not you living a high lifestyle. Looks like you want to try for a 0% payback, with 136K income that is very unlikely, unless you have extreme medical expenses or other major unavoidable expenses.

Thanks for the advice. I agree that the gifts are too high. For years, we've been obligated by tradition to buy everyone in my wife's family both Christmas and birthday gifts. It's high time that stopped.

I'm maxing my 401K now at 16% to build up some sort of savings in case I need to replace my clunker (1996) car. That will have to come WAY down.

Good advice to see where we can tighten up. I'm certain at our income level we're going to pay something back. Thanks for the feedback!

[ameangreenbe]

Show Me Your..........................................Budg et

We only put $120 a month into dh's 401K and my lawyer thought that even that could be cut back some.

Thanks for the input. Was your attorney aggressive, did he/she try to argue your position or did they try to avoid any conflict? I'm asking because I tried to find a attorney who would try as hard as possible to help me. What has your experience been on how effectively they can argue your position?

Thanks again.

[luckylou22]

I visited my first lawyer yesterday and gave my version of monthly expenses. I had 50.00 mo for gifts and 100.00 mo for recreation. He told me that our Trustee would not allow that at all. I'm in PA.

Family of one, my dream budget:
Mortgage-740, Auto-258, Elec-100, Gas Utility-176, water/sewer-40, Phone-95, Cell-72, Cable-65, Health/Dental Copays-130, Health/Dental Premiums-73, Car Ins-73, Gas for Car-100, Food-350, animals-20, Car Mtnc-40, HH Mtnc-75, Personal Care-35, Clothing-50, 401K Loan-714, taxes-1405.
This will leave me with about 900 for unsecured debt (some would argue the 410K loan is unsecure, still not sure). Now before BK, I have min of ~1700 as payments on all unsecured (again not counting 401K loan).

Luckylou22

[ameangreenbe]

I visited my first lawyer yesterday and gave my version of monthly expenses. I had 50.00 mo for gifts and 100.00 mo for recreation. He told me that our Trustee would not allow that at all. I'm in PA.

Family of one, my dream budget:
Mortgage-740, Auto-258, Elec-100, Gas Utility-176, water/sewer-40, Phone-95, Cell-72, Cable-65, Health/Dental Copays-130, Health/Dental Premiums-73, Car Ins-73, Gas for Car-100, Food-350, animals-20, Car Mtnc-40, HH Mtnc-75, Personal Care-35, Clothing-50, 401K Loan-714, taxes-1405.
This will leave me with about 900 for unsecured debt (some would argue the 410K loan is unsecure, still not sure). Now before BK, I have min of ~1700 as payments on all unsecured (again not counting 401K loan).

Luckylou22

Thanks for sharing! I totally forgot about my dogs! Eeek! Thanks to you they won't starve and can go to the vet (if the Trustee agrees).

I wonder if anyone has created a list of expenditures as a means to ensuring we're not forgetting anything?

[DUMBAGAIN]

luckylou22--your trustee won't allow that much for gifts and rec or Zero for them?

[ameangreenbe]

Show Me Your..........................................Budg et

I was able to obtain a schedule of "approved" amount for my local trustees. You may want to see if you can locate one to cross check what your attorney is telling you. I went through 5 attorney interviews before I picked one.

IMHO your food and entertainment seem low. I know you're only one person but $350 a month breaks down to $3.88 a meal (3 squares a day for 30 days = 90 meals). However, I see that in my District around $300 a month is typical for a single person.

From what I've read here the "trick" is to become a very frugal shopper / consumer so you can maximize your lifestyle while sticking to the plan.

Good luck and let us know how you do.

I visited my first lawyer yesterday and gave my version of monthly expenses. I had 50.00 mo for gifts and 100.00 mo for recreation. He told me that our Trustee would not allow that at all. I'm in PA.

Family of one, my dream budget:
Mortgage-740, Auto-258, Elec-100, Gas Utility-176, water/sewer-40, Phone-95, Cell-72, Cable-65, Health/Dental Copays-130, Health/Dental Premiums-73, Car Ins-73, Gas for Car-100, Food-350, animals-20, Car Mtnc-40, HH Mtnc-75, Personal Care-35, Clothing-50, 401K Loan-714, taxes-1405.
This will leave me with about 900 for unsecured debt (some would argue the 410K loan is unsecure, still not sure). Now before BK, I have min of ~1700 as payments on all unsecured (again not counting 401K loan).

Luckylou22

[BigJohn]

I tink the 401K loan myight be toast and the 401 contribution might have to be reduced if not eleminated.

How much debt are we talking about?

What percentage do you plan to pay back?

[ameangreenbe]

I tink the 401K loan myight be toast and the 401 contribution might have to be reduced if not eleminated.

How much debt are we talking about?

What percentage do you plan to pay back?

- I have $368K total debt. $270K is my mortgage (house is worth $170K now)
- other secured debts total about $10K leaving $88K unsecured debt.
- so let's say secured and unsecured are $100K. At $500/month I'd pay back $30K over 5 years. I'd say between 30% to 40% payback. A lien strip of my second mortgage would help and I can certainly reduce my 401K contribution.

What is the average payback? Do statistics on this exist anywhere?

[Ifonly]

I think the recreation, clothing, medical/dental, and home maintenance all might be questioned.

We're a family of 4 in the northeast (high cost of living) and my lawyer cut clothing to $125/mo. and only gave us $25/mo. for house maintenance. We were given a total of $200/mo. for all out of pocket medical. Unless you have a family member who has a need for chronic medication or specialist care, I'm not sure how you could justify $125/monthly for prescriptions, etc.

And I agree with previous posters - the 401K contribution will be out.