Can I hire a new attorney in the middle of a Chapt 13?

[kcfaninin]

We are 20 months into Chapter 13. Our plan payments are way too high with nothing left for emergencies or anything extra that might come up. Our payments are on payroll deduction so when emergencies come up, we are at the cash advance (payday) place. We have talked to our attorney on many occasions regarding our lack of disposable income and she is no help. She says everyone is struggling with the economy. We want to convert to Chapter 7 and would like to know our options if it is even possible. Our current attorney won't even consider looking into it. My theory is, her Chapter 13 fee would be written off in the Chapter 7 and she wouldn't get paid. If we seek another attorney and file Chapter 7, what happens to our current attorney's payments? How likely is it for another attorney to get involved?

[woeisme]

If you are 20 months into your plan, I imagine your attorney has already been paid, as they are classified as priority debt, getting paid 1st.

I understand your pain, I also wanted to convert to a CH 7 when my husband's income dropped in half, which would have put us just at the median income eligibility cut-off, but my attorney also wouldn't look into it, said the trustee would never go for it. (She did get us a 3-month suspension of payments tho). I don't know why the attorneys are so reluctant to take on a CH 7 conversion, since they'd be able to charge you more fees to do so, but I've had a similar experience with that reluctance. I think you have to petition the trustee to get your attorney removed from your CH 13 before another lawyer will consider taking your case though. Good luck.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Of course you can hire another attorney. Like 'Woeisme' stated though, your new attorney would have to petition the Court for a change of your legal counsel. Not a big deal and if you currently meet the criteria for a conversion to 7, I can't imagine the legal system not allowing it. They have in the past for others and the law "should" be met equally to all.

In my opinion, I would do this as fast as you are able. Things are going to get worse, I'm afraid. Gas prices going up again, why? I think we are being jerked around into becoming a third world nation. Just my opinion. 'Hub

[kcfaninin]

Thank you for responding. Should we first consult with another attorney to see if they would even take our case? How do we find out if we are even eligible for a Chapter 7? We currently work 4 jobs between the 2 of us and physically can't do it any more. We picked up extra jobs in order to avoid filing Bankruptcy then they base our means test on the 6 months prior to filing!! We can quit our part time jobs, but how do we make our Chapt 13 plan payments while we wait to file for the Chapt 7? Don't we have to wait 6 months after our income is decreased to file a Chapt 7?

[HHM]

Umm, Reality check...you are not supposed to have disposible income in a chpater 13. Now, your bugdet should not be super tight, but at the same time, a chapter 13 is specifically designed for you NOT to save.

[kcfaninin]

Our attorney had us "fudge" numbers on the means test in order for "the plan to work". She had us budget on the low side of our expenses in order to have more money to pay our creditors. The problem has been that I am a nurse and when our census is low, I am called to stay home. So, it is not uncommon for me to lose $300 in one night. That puts us NEGATIVE for the month when the court allows us to have $50 extra a week. This could happen a couple days a month which is a $600 loss. Then the court doesn't allow for extras, like when the washer breaks or the car needs tires or your fridge goes out. We are negative every month and borrowing from family and payday lenders. Seems like we are worse off now then before we filed!!

[BnkrptcyLwyr]

You were not well served. You're attorney must look at your budget, make sure it's sufficient to meet your basic needs (at least) and advise you accordingly (even if it's too counsel that you need to get rid of the house, or car, or travel trailer, or whatever).

I'm going to agree with HHM on this.

Now, for all the lurkers ... you should NEVER trim your budget to "make it work."

You can't eat your house. Your kids can't eat the tires on your Porsche.

You simply must budget appropriately. If there is not the money, then the hard choices must come.

Too many people "need" to keep the nice house, or the expensive truck with the $725/month payment.

NO. You need to feed and clothe yourselves, you need to keep the lights and heat on. You DON'T need the premium sports channels in HD, or to tithe your church to the tune of $250 month. Sorry if you can't afford to spend $150 month on recreation anymore. Them's the breaks.

What you DO need to do is to take care of the basics for you and the kids.

Clients can't ever seem to grasp that they need to DOWNSIZE ... and there needs to be ADJUSTMENTS to the way you live and spend money. Eating and sleeping and keeping the electricity and gas and phones on are paramount. NOT the trips to Disneyworld or up north or camping or whatever.

[kcfaninin]

I do believe we were poorly represented!! We don't live in a fancy home or drive expensive cars. We have basic cable and we don't spend anything on recreation because we are always at work. The only place we can trim our budget is with our grocery bill. With a family of 5 we budget about $500 per month and I think that's pretty acceptable. Can't do much about the phone, electric, water and gas. Those are what they are. So, we are not a family that lives lavishly and we don't have ANY disposable income. So, my ititial question is, can we retain a different attorney and what is the process? Is it likely another attorney will take our case and help us convert to a Chapter 7 or do many shy away from getting involved? When we approached our current attorney about ammending the plan, she stated we needed to pick up another part-time job (we work 4 now) or cut some of your living expenses. There is nothing to cut back on except food. Our current NET income is $6591 and our monthly expenses our $6957. This amount includes our payment to the court, mortgage, cars, utilities etc. If anything out of the ordinary comes up, we end up negative for the month.

[HHM]

Yes, you can retain a different attorney, the real question is whether you can find one willing to substitute in; the unfortunate reality, most attorneys will not jump into the middle of an already filed case.

[kcfaninin]

HHM
That was my concern also. We have one in mind and I will give him a call in the morning. If he is not willing to accept our case, I guess we have no alternative then to continue to butt heads with our current one. At least now I know what some of our options are.

Thanks!!

[charlesman2]

boy ive learned alot in these fourms iam in the middle of my 7 right now iam in persumed abuse since day 10 but have not hearded very much from the trusty iam thinking there going to try to convert me not sure.but what i see here is people getting rope in on these 13 plans isnt the point to get you on track you need to have funds set aside for things like car repairs home maint.in my case i have no asst nothing.and theres not much encome let at the end maybe a 100 dollers is what i could affored if they tryed to push me there.your case seems to be more then meets the eye

[SocalBroke]

Our attorney had us "fudge" numbers on the means test in order for "the plan to work". She had us budget on the low side of our expenses in order to have more money to pay our creditors.

I'm sorry, I hope I don't throw this off topic, but I have to ask because I am really confused...why would the attorney do that?? What is the advantage to paying more money to the creditors instead of having enough to get by?

I do wish you luck as I can't imagine (and hope I never have to) filing bankruptcy and being in just as bad if not worse position then before you filed.

[charlesman2]

makes no since to fudge the numbers why try to get to such a high payback if you can affored it dont get it

[kcfaninin]

SocalBroke
I'm not quite sure myself. All I remember her saying is we have to get these numbers to 80% payback or the trustee will deny the case. So she had us shave some figures off our living expenses. She's the professional and that's what we paid her for. In hindsight I'm thinking maybe she gets more of a fee the more we pay back, heck I don't know. But we truly are worse off now because in addition to our previous debts, we now owe her $3000 and the trustee $6000 over 5 years. Also, I am thinking that maybe she doesn't want us to convert to a Chapter 7, becasue her Chapter 13 fees might be able to be included in the Chapter 7. Just a guess though!! We have already paid her around $1500.