I did the means test for AZ and have questions

[indebt00]

I did the online version for our state and it didn't really have many places for any detailed deductions....you get 961 mo for food/personal care/etc which is based on national stds. so....

we worked the numbers in a spreadsheet with our actual costs of what we NEED each month...and we tried to be conservative..and used our real morts,cars,utils and the proposed pymt would leaev us....

......$806 per month for everything else...like food, prescrips,gas, car registration, dog food, pool chemicals...everything. groceries alone could take almost 1/2 of that with the cost of food today and the fact we will not be eating out ever and prescrips run $150ish month. gosh...wow...guess I don't get migraine meds.....you know you start to realize the cost of living when you put it all in writing and we are going to be so broke...I need to go have a strong drink....oh wait....can't afford that....

this is really scary.....will the lawyer really have the ability to help pad the deductions to give us a little wiggle room?

thanks again for all your answers

[optimistic1]

The Chapter 13 trustees will utilize their own deductions, and not the IRS allowances, regardless if you are above or below the median income.



I live in AZ too, and I know this is what the two Trustees will use. So if you are trying to pad or cushion categories of expenses that already exceed the Trustee guidelines, then they will cry foul, and ask for receipts. So only pad things that will leave you right at, or under the guidelines.

Now, keep in mind, if you exceed the expenses that they see as reasonable, you can still go beyond the limits, but be prepared to show proof of receipt.

Here is a link that will help you better understand.

http://maney13trustee.com/TrusteeExpenseGuidelines2008.9-25-08.pdf

You will need Adobe Acrobat to view the file, btw.

Also, here is a great spreadsheet that will help you easily add up all of your expenses and print them out. It has things that you may have never even though about.

http://www.ca-bankruptcy-attorneys.com/calculators/expense_calculator.html

Keep in mind, that this would be for the Phoenix area, if you live outside of the area, then your trustee may actually be someone else, your attorney, or the bankruptcy court that you file in would be able to tell you.

[catleg]

I think it's kind of funny that on the PDF file, under 401k contributions, they don't just say "allowed in full", they just put the cite for 11 USC 541(b)(7)(B).
Kind of like they don't want you to know. Slimy.

[optimistic1]

Yeah, so if your a pro se filer, you need to first get a law degree to understand it.

[indebt00]

The Chapter 13 trustees will utilize their own deductions, and not the IRS allowances, regardless if you are above or below the median income.



I live in AZ too, and I know this is what the two Trustees will use. So if you are trying to pad or cushion categories of expenses that already exceed the Trustee guidelines, then they will cry foul, and ask for receipts. So only pad things that will leave you right at, or under the guidelines.

Now, keep in mind, if you exceed the expenses that they see as reasonable, you can still go beyond the limits, but be prepared to show proof of receipt.

Here is a link that will help you better understand.

http://maney13trustee.com/TrusteeExpenseGuidelines2008.9-25-08.pdf

You will need Adobe Acrobat to view the file, btw.

Also, here is a great spreadsheet that will help you easily add up all of your expenses and print them out. It has things that you may have never even though about.

http://www.ca-bankruptcy-attorneys.com/calculators/expense_calculator.html

Keep in mind, that this would be for the Phoenix area, if you live outside of the area, then your trustee may actually be someone else, your attorney, or the bankruptcy court that you file in would be able to tell you.

yes we are in phx...these are actually from some Phx trustees? they seem better than the federal ones. I thought that the fed overtook state.
so....can I use these in my homemade calculations? are they pretty legit?

thx for the links !!!

ANY and I mean ANY help you can offer for a Phx ch 13 or tips...please let me know. thanks

[optimistic1]

Yes the first link is for the actual Chapter 13 trustees, you can visit the main website at www.maney13trustee.com, there are lots of other forms.

The second website is actually from a California attorney, but it helps you print out a monthly budget, most of the things on their would be allowed as expenses.

[indebt00]

thanks again

[thoover34]

as to the phnx trustees schedule--are you saying that if you spend more on food they will likely resist it,--what if you don't spend as much on rent? can I use their allowance--is it looked at as their schedule is an upper limit but they expect you to use actual if you are spending less

sorry to phrase this so poorly but I believe that you will understand my question

[indebt00]

as to the phnx trustees schedule--are you saying that if you spend more on food they will likely resist it,--what if you don't spend as much on rent? can I use their allowance--is it looked at as their schedule is an upper limit but they expect you to use actual if you are spending less

sorry to phrase this so poorly but I believe that you will understand my question

The schedule J has our costs that our lawyer put in, we did not have much input on those #'s except for healthcare...which we put in our actual #. The lawyer knew how much the Trustee would think was ok....we trust him on that.

The B22 uses all the federal guidelines...not sure how that helps you

We are not confirmed yet...so really I have NO idea if the Trustee will accept our #'s or not.

but payment wise...this website which I found here on these boards was almost dead on for your payment....hope this info helps you

http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/nolo/syn_nolo_bankruptcy-means-test.php?ZIP=85706&ST=AZ&CBSA=46060&FEDCT=AZ&CITY=Tucson&METRO=Tucson,+AZ