% Payback (it doesn't matter)

[greenthinker]

Yes, it will continue until it's 100% of the allowed secured claims, or the 60 months elapses, whichever comes first.

I just read the question from Jaxx1369, and it sounds like I may end up in a similar situation. If the full amount of the unsecured debt for which proofs of claim have been filed is paid off before the 60 months is up, couldn't the plan be modified to either reduce the plan payment or apply more of the payment to the secured debt?

[justbroke]

I just read the question from Jaxx1369, and it sounds like I may end up in a similar situation. If the full amount of the unsecured debt for which proofs of claim have been filed is paid off before the 60 months is up, couldn't the plan be modified to either reduce the plan payment or apply more of the payment to the secured debt?

It would be a pain to go for a modification, unless it's significant. For example, if it only reduces plan payment by 1-3 months, it's not worth the process of modification. If it's significant, then you could go for a lower payment.

However, not all Districts are clear on 100% plans not requiring 100% of the disposable monthly income (DMI) paid each and every month. Most Trustees prefer that you pay the DMI, even if it's a 100% plan and you will pay off the plan much much earlier.

[janland]

Probably best to just surrender the timeshare. Also, timeshares are treated differently amongst the States. It could be an actual deeded real estate or just an executory contract.[/QUOTE]

Hi just curious on chapter 7 IF it is a non deeded time share- would this executory contract appear anywhere, let's say on a credit report? i.e. tracking. thanks

[janland]

Hi just curious on chapter 7 IF it is a non deeded time share- would this executory contract appear anywhere, let's say on a credit report? i.e. tracking. thanks

[justbroke]

Hi just curious on chapter 7 IF it is a non deeded time share- would this executory contract appear anywhere, let's say on a credit report? i.e. tracking. thanks

Most executory contracts don't show up on credit reports. Unless you owed money on this "right to use" timeshare is not paid for, then you will probably have some sort of promissory note and that would be reported.

Why do you want to know this anyhow?

[janland]

Hi thanks for the info. this was truly for a friend- I'm doing a 13... She needs to get the free credit bureau reports and see what's up. I would think it's on the reports.

[Cgriswold]

Ok, this sticky thread has ALWAYS bothered me and maybe that is because I am in a plan that provides for me to pay all unsecured claims 100%

How can the % NOT matter? I am paying back every nickel claimed. should I not be afforded some latitude with regard to tax refunds, raises, etc?

if my plain dictated a 0% or 5% or 55% payback over 5 years, sure...I get it that the % really doesn't matter because I would not be satisfying all claims in full and so ALL my DMI should go to the plan. I can see where my DMI should be "scrutinized" and expected to adjust the plan. But if I signed up for paying back 100% already and the plan over 5 years works as confirmed and I am bound to said plan...the % does somewhat matter?

No? I am ready to be called an idiot. Go.

[tigergem]

This is the way I understand it, cgriswold. You can only be in a 100% payback because your DMI is sufficient to allow for it. But if it looks like (hypothetically) 140% is getting paid to the trustee over the currently confirmed number of months, due to your income tax refund, or an increase in the monthly plan payment amount due to a raise, then you should be able to amend your plan to reduce the number of months, so long as the percentage to unsecureds is still maintained. If you do nothing to amend your plan, then I reckon the trustee will refund you any amount you have paid in that exceeds 100% of the claims upon completion of your plan.

In a 100% plan, I would definitely motion to retain and spend the income tax refund due to unexpected necessary expenses. I was able to do that, and my payback percentage to unsecureds is less than 1%. I fully expected the trustee to object, but he did not. But to receive that latitude, you do have to ask for it.

I hope that is clearer than mud. Good luck!

[Cgriswold]

See, I think you hit on the reason that the % DOES matter, in my tiny little mind...you said "so long as the percentage to unsecureds is still maintained"

If I am following my plan to the T and the trustee receives 100% every penny, nickel and dime...it seems to me that whatever changes in income/expenses "outside" the plan that I encounter should be ok, "so long as the percentage to unsecureds is still maintained"

yet i read again and again from the vets on this board that even in 100% plan ALL dmi should be turned over to the trustee. that just makes no sense to me. Unless i come across a substantial windfall that is going to allow me to pay of the plan in full tomorrow, why would I want to, hypothetically, turn over my 12% per month change in income or my $300 per month reduction in outside the plan expenses if those changes could, in fact, make it EASIER for me to complete the plan as agreed upon in my confirmation. It seem antithetical to the reason for being in a 100% 13 in the first place! IMHO.

Cheers,
C

[tigergem]

Well, the reason the percentage matters in your case is because you are already confirmed in a 100% payback. It is my understanding that only a drop in your DMI that renders the current plan unfeasible would warrant a modification that will allow for a reduction of that percentage to the unsecureds once 100% is confirmed. I could be wrong about that, but I don't think I am. But for sure I do understand that when the % does not matter is in the beginning, when you first file, so long as DMI is sufficient to pay the secureds and priority claims... the % allowed to the unsecureds, really does not matter. Full payment of DMI does matter, in every case. But if your 100% DMI can pay off those claims at 100% at say... 49 months instead of 60, then you might want to modify your plan to reduce the number of months.

[Cgriswold]

Right, I get it...but again, my question is...if my plan as constituted gets the unsecureds, the trustee, the lawyer, the pope and his minions everything that is claimed, every red cent...what advantage to me is there to end the plan early by turning over extra income, especially if that extra income would make finishing the plan as confirmed much easier? I mean, my world is effed for 7 years no matter what from a credit standpoint so why NOT use the full 5 years to my advantage? Does my question make sense? You read on this board of people who are trying to build that cushion when something happens and maybe if they had been allowed to keep that last raise and/or refund or whatever they would have a sufficient cushion to make it through the plan as confirmed and there would be WAY less dismissals for non-payment? again, why take MORE from a person in a 100% plan than what is needed to complete that plan in 60 months??

[tigergem]

Well, here's the deal. Just because you get a raise and report it properly, doesn't necessarily mean the Trustee is going to demand a modification of your plan. And I'm not 100% positive, but I don't think you "have to" modify the plan, just because you can. I've reported all kinds of changes in my income and expenses in the form of amended schedules I & J... with no demand from the Trustee that I modify my plan. So, if you have done your duty and reported a raise dutifully, just leave it at that unless the Trustee demands a modification. If he does, then you be sure to equally scrutinize all of your expenses for the modification... follow me? And, if you are expecting an income tax refund, make a motion to retain and spend it, if it is stipulated in your confirmation order that you are supposed to surrender it. On the basis of unexpected necessary expenses not stipulated in your schedules. Be sure to note that your request is not to the detriment of the creditors.

[Cgriswold]

I appreciate your feedback. I am not actually looking to change a THING personally(even if recent events might have warranted it) and I was more interested in the hypothetical here, but I thank you for your thoughts.



Cheers,
C

[tigergem]

Right, I get your concern about making the month to month for the duration - emergencies and what not. A skillfully crafted and confirmed plan is fully do-able. The art is in the I & J.

[justbroke]

yet i read again and again from the vets on this board that even in 100% plan ALL dmi should be turned over to the trustee. that just makes no sense to me.

I will repeat here that it is District dependent! The Trustees prefer that you pay 100% of your disposable monthly income (DMI) even though you would payoff a 5 year plan in 2 years. This "preference" can be overridden by just fighting the Trustee at confirmation. The problem is that most people allow a 100% DMI payment to be confirmed when they may have been able to do 50% DMI and still pay 100% of the allowed unsecured claims.

You need to have the right attorney that will fight over this and/or pay an attorney to litigate this.