Should I Cheat...or Be Lazy? Hmmm

[BKINAZ]

I am not talking about me specifically, but I am curious what motivates you to make more money while you are in chapter 13 if any extra money you make all goes to debt???

It sounds like it would make more sense to take a job at the zoo (whatever your passion is) vs "working" and kick back for five years if you can't improve your life by making money? Sounds like your only option if you want to make money is to cheat and hide it..or like I said, be lazy and not even worry about making more money?

Am I missing something or in one word is that our options?

[Scott50]

I think it depends on your trustee. My confirmation letter didn't make any reference of providing tax returns or notifying him/her of significant income changes.. My income has gone up since I filed in Jan 2008 and I've received bonuses at work that I've kept.

[BKINAZ]

Okay from what I have seen...I think you are in for a surprise in this thread. I HOPE you are right, but I'm thinking you might want to have your tax records ready and a big fat check for the trustee in April.

BTW...how much contact did you have with the trustee over the past year? Any?

Thanks!

[optimistic1]

Any increases in pay that exceed 10% typically need to be reported. And any overages in expenses that you may have that exceed what is considered reasonable by the trustee would basically be turned into disposable income that would increase your plan payment. So you are correct, why work extra hard to just have the trustee take it from you. I dont plan on every volunteering for overtime at my workplace anymore in the future for exactly that reason.

[Scott50]

It all depends on the trustee- at my 341, mine basically told me make all your payments on time and I'll leave you alone.. I've made all my payments and not a word from the trustee, except for a friendly phone call from office saying that my car was paid off and that Chrysler has sent them the title... They wanted to give me the heads up that they were mailing me the title..

[woeisme]

My trustee is the same way, said if my tax refunds were under $6500, don't worry about them, if my raises were under 10%, he didn't want to hear about them, etc. So some trustees just want you to make the payments and let them move on to the next case, especially when so many people are filing these days!

[imaloser]

interesting

i'm two year's into a chapter 13. i can't say i'm motivated to "earn more money" but i'm very motivated to build "assets". why ? it's the only thing that makes me feel secure ! my financial troubles began ten years ago, but prior to that, i "lived large" - and not by borrowing. i had 500.00 credit card debt - that's it. my whole life i lived this way. i kept my living expenses as low as possible and i have never driven a new car as i could not justify the total cost of ownership - insurance, taxes, license, car payment - it was all absurd to me. my first car was a brand new honda civic at age 17 ! i was considered a freak because that was in 1974 - one of the first civic's - actually built in japan. my parents gave my a grand and i paid for the rest. and it's been that way my whole life. i kept my living expenses low and my vehicle expenses low (all the financial guru's extol the virtues of focusing on those two "biggies". and when i say i "lived large" - my passions are expensive - travel, art, gardening, food and wine. i had plenty of money to pursue my passions and at the same time save 10-15% of my earnings. but ten years ago everything changed. i bought a now 120 year old house which "needed me" and drained my savings practically over night. i moved my mother here from out of state due to her finances and health issues. i think i left 10 grand in savings as a "cushion". well, within a couple of years, that was gone too and then i started borrowing and borrowing more and borrowing yet again. by 2004 i had amassed 25 grand in debt - not too bad i told myself. then, the boom was lowered - my employer started lay-offs and for those of left standing we had to take pay cuts and benefit reductions, and so forth. and you can write the rest of the story.

my main motivation for earning more money is strictly so that i can pursue my passions and put money away. i took my budget and started shifting things around. for example, i have a dog budget - two of them (i'm wild about whippets). last year, i did not take them for their annual exams - that's about 300 bucks - i took that money and shoved it under the mattress. when gas got 4 bucks a gallon this past summer, i halved the amount of trips to the park where i can let my dogs off leash and run (i was taking them on a daily basis). that was 12 bucks a week. i stuck that under the mattress. i also love to entertain - in the past, i would estimate that between thanksgiving and christmas i would spend 1500.00 - 2000.00 just entertaining - big groups and small groups - nixed it this past year, but i shoved a grand under the mattress - i needed to do it this way to have something to show for the sacrifices i felt i was making.

just a few examples of many that i used to start building back my savings - and believe me, it adds up really, really fast. i'm proud to say that within this last year, i survived a theft in which i had to pay out my 1000.00 deductible, decided with that theft to do some other work to the back of the house - another 4 grand, i had a 1950.00 plumbing repair for an upstairs bathroom (toilet fell through the floor), and i installed 1800.00 worth of insulation in the attic and basement of my house. i would not have been able to do these things if i hadn't squirreled away money. in the last year i also started liquidating - just total junk - but again, shocked at how much money i was able to make (and squirrel away). there's still a lot more i feel i can liquidate and not feel bad about one bit. the only thing i need to have around me is my art, my dogs and my garden ! ! !

although i've always grown my own produce, last year, because of this huge "buy local" movement in my city, i contracted with two toney restaurants and the chefs would come to my house every day if not every other day and pick their own produce (for a fee). last summer i earned just under 3000 (cash) i have also contracted with a farmer's market this coming growing season which will also be cash. i also have been asked to bake a specialty cookie for a market - i can't believe they will pay me 8 bucks a dozen (i always make 5 dozen bathces) and sell them for a buck a piece retail ! they also want me to make custom orders for folks. just another way for me to make chump change.

obviously - i have not acquired any new art, and have had to drastically reduce my travel and treat myself now and then to a great bottle of wine. i have booked a trip to london on british air - only because the fares were ridiculously low - 178.00 rt ! ! !

sorry for the long post - but yeah - i'm "motivated" to find creative ways to bring in more dollars.

[imaloser]

taxes

i remember filing in march of 2007 - i had filed my taxes but had not paid them - i think i owed 275 on fed and under a 100 on state - and my lawyer wanted to include those in the bk (even thought i was getting ready to send in the payments). i grew very uncomfortable with having those tax debts pushed behind my mortgage arrears so i called the trustee and he said it was fine if i went ahead and paid my taxes outside the plan (which i did).

as a general rule - i don't get refunds - i structure my withholdings so that give or take a hundred i'm good. last year i did get a refund which i kept and this year i'll probably get a refund - only because of the huge mortgage interest paid out. but that will not be the norm.

for me, i can make up to 7 grand extra a year and fall under the radar - that's a little under 600 bucks a month.

[Trixie007]

So I guess the answer to the OP is... both (or none depending on the Trustee). Not working OT, not reporting cash earnings... pretty interesting. I've wondered the same thing, should we be pushed into a 13.

[BKINAZ]

LOSER...love your name btw...(we have two greyhounds so we understand), cheat is such an ugly word so I will go with creative like you. I think you have to be creative otherwise I can't see any motivation not to be a sloth.

I have said often to my wife, we may end up saving more money now (savings) because of BK, than most any other time (minus the sale of our house with no tax)...so it will be a "good" thing.

But I'd like someone to address WOEISME's point of anything under a $6,500 tax return is okay to keep? Not report? Never heard that...surprises me, is it true?

I assume you give the TRUSTEE your tax returns each year? Bueller? Anyone?

TRIXIE "I've wondered the same thing, should we be pushed into a 13."

Please explain that a little bit...how you meant it? Should we be pushed into 13 vs 7? Or should 13 not be an option considering the choice of cheating or being lazy? I know we can't change it...but I hope someone smarter than us say's..."hey if you make $20k more this year, why don't you give your creditors 25% and you can save the rest!"

[liz417]

OP: You are correct, why should we work extra, try to get a better paying job, etc., only to give it up in a ch 13? I was faced with this decision; I got a p/t retail job to make ends meet (before we decided on filing for BK) and was going to return to my "management career" once we figured out what to do. Now, there's no incentive to return to a high stress management job to only hand over more to the Trustee. I work 25-30 hours a week, M-F and am off by 12 noon I think I'll keep this "gig" for the next 5 years

[BKINAZ]

I can see that. lol But I am guessing my wife won't understand. Like I had said somewhere in this forum, it's kinda my fault we are in the mess (although I maintaing we would have to do this anyway with the land issue we have)...but nonetheless...kinda my fault and oh btw honey I'm not going to work for the next five years.

Gotta feeling I would be looking for a new wife...which creates problems that will make BK look like kids play.

I'm happy for you! (Seriously)

[Trixie007]

TRIXIE "I've wondered the same thing, should we be pushed into a 13."

Please explain that a little bit...how you meant it? Should we be pushed into 13 vs 7? Or should 13 not be an option considering the choice of cheating or being lazy? I know we can't change it...but I hope someone smarter than us say's..."hey if you make $20k more this year, why don't you give your creditors 25% and you can save the rest!"

What I mean is that we are filing a Ch7, but if we're pushed into a Ch13, I've wondered what I would do. I can earn enough in one day a week to bring our schedule I/J to zero (currently in the negative), why would I work more than that to just have to give them the money? Right now, during my recovery, I get to spend about 50 hrs a week doing my reading/study time & digi scrapping. I'm not sure I would work more if I had to just hand over every penny. And that's from a former workaholic!

[BKINAZ]

That's what i thought you meant and you are right...why bother when the alternative is being productive personally.

[OhioFiler]

my main motivation for earning more money is strictly so that i can pursue my passions and put money away. i took my budget and started shifting things around. for example, i have a dog budget - two of them (i'm wild about whippets). last year, i did not take them for their annual exams - that's about 300 bucks - .

Hey! We love whippets too! Our family includes two as well as 2 other sighthounds.