Chapter 13 Trustee has his own Expenses Standards, say what?

[optimistic1]

Since when does the Chapter 13 Trustee have his own expenses standards?

A attorney showed me today a sheet, that by the way it was dated 2004, that had expenses that they thought was reasonable for gas, food, home maintenance, and other things, just like the IRS standards.

For some reason I dont think they know about the new laws, and that you would use the IRS standards, or your actual expenses granted they dont exceed the IRS standards.

Can anyone shed any light on this, I found it rather disturbing, that the State Trustee would use his own standards, not adjusted for inflation from almost 5 years ago.

[fltoo]

LOL, that is disturbing. Maybe you can use your 2004 salary to pass his means test?

[Trixie007]

LOL, that is disturbing. Maybe you can use your 2004 salary to pass his means test?

OMG that's hilarious!

I can't believe that their numbers would hold up in front of a judge if they're lower than what the law allows!

[optimistic1]

Thats what I am saying, I am taking this a RED FLAG against this attorney, and although he effortlessly went through all the numbers with me, ran a full means test, and ran a full Ch.13 payment plan, I will not be hiring him because of that very reason.

So the search continues...I am getting so tired of consults.

[GPark]

I found a website awhile back that had the names of two Ch 13 trustees in Phoenix? and their acceptable expenses. It was from 2008 and all of the expenses were pretty much in line or slightly higher than Nat'l standards.

[optimistic1]

Really? Link me !!!! I live in Phoenix!


Here is the exact form that he showed me!

http://www.dianedrain.com/Bankruptcy/BankruptcyForms/TE%20Guidelines%2011-03.pdf

[BnkrptcyLwyr]

Really? Link me !!!! I live in Phoenix!

Here is the exact form that he showed me!

http://www.dianedrain.com/Bankruptcy...es%2011-03.pdf

Well, right off the bat, the 401k contribution allowance of "0" is wrong ... See 11 USC 541(b)(7) ... after the change in the law in 2005.

[optimistic1]

Thats what I had read too, Im not hiring this guy, I hate it when they hand me old information.

[optimistic1]

I called the Trustee's office, and they confirmed with me that they do in fact use that very sheet I referenced and linked to, to determine if you are spending more than what is normal.

I think it is the most idiotic approach, and it doesnt make any sense. They are basically saying that if you spend more than what they state on the sheet, you will need to prove it.

Their standards are much lower and not even adjusted for inflation.

I suppose this how they "stick it" to debtors, and try to maximize a payment to line their own and creditors pockets.

[Mi Bankruptcy]

hmm.. I wonder what would happen if your state attorney general found this out? Maybe a kind word to the local press. Find the local columnist.. They eat this stuff up. They will call and ask the same question.. then rant and rave about it in the news paper..

[optimistic1]

Good idea. I think it so stupid, that they can use values from almost 5 years ago. I should call the AG's office and complain, but they are all on the same side, they could care less about Joe the Plumber.

Maybe this attorney just has it wrong, who knows, Im so sick of going to consults, and every attorney or firm has their own way of doing things.

[lrprn]

Im so sick of going to consults, and every attorney or firm has their own way of doing things.

And this is precisely why it's important to go to so many initial consultations - to get a feel for how THAT LAWYER and his/her OFFICE are going to operate. Also if you just interview one lawyer and put your money on the line, how will you ever find out that there may be better ways to plan for your filing and that another lawyer will provide better service?

Grit your teeth and keep going on interviews. Ask every lawyer the same questions and write down what they tell you. That's how you can begin to see which one of the lawyers is going to be best for your unique set of financial circumstances. It's well worth the time and effort it takes.

[optimistic1]

You are right, and that is the reason I have been going on so many. Maybe I will end up going to the one I scheduled today after all.

However, I just checked the attorney profile on a firms website, it states that he doesnt practice BK law, but, all the others.

Sounds like a general consult, where they just tell you how the BK 13 works, I already know that stuff, they would be wasting my time and gas money.

Im gonna go to another one tommorow elsewhere.

Yesterday I had a really great attorney actually start running all of my numbers through Best Case BK software, and then he ran through what was left out of my budget, and punched it into a matrix program from the Trustee's website to see if the plan would be confirmed. He said it would work.

Now that is a real consult.

He was charging $500 less than all the other attorneys I met with too.

I think I will be going with him, for now, anyway.

[njguy1972]

Those numbers probably do not make sense.

I think $280 on food for a single person is very low, even if you bring breakfast and lunch to work each day.

Many companies are not offering free coffee anymore so just buying a cup of coffee while at work will cost you a $1 or $2 a day.

[fltoo]

Think that is archaic?

In doing research for FL exemptions, I found this info.

"The question is whether the legislature went far enough. The $1,000 exemption from creditor claims was carried over from the Florida Constitution of 1868. According to the Office of Economic and Demographic Research, $1,000 in 1868 is approximately $15,000 today."