Schedule I, Schedule J, and Form 22c

[njguy1972]

[justbroke]

The first thing, and I didn't see it in your post so forgive me if it was there, is are you above median income? If you are above median income, you'll be using Form B22C regardless of how Schedules I and J read.

Second, say you are above median (or even below) and want to keep the condo... NOTHING is going to stop you from doing that, unless you have some serious equity in non-exempt assets which is forcing you to pay a minimum amount to unsecured creditors. That's the unsecured creditors must get at least as much as they would received had the debtor filed Chapter 7 and liquidated his non-exempt assets.

[njguy1972]

Thanks for the input that a 22C will be required. I just need to educate / convince my lawyer to fill it out the way I want to. it is tough when I cannot see the software they use. I will probably give him my I, J, and 22C along with a document explaining where all the numbers came from. I know I am doing the legwork but if I do not I fear I may be forced to pay an extra $300-500 a month because he does not understand my expenses as well as I do. The 1st lawyer did not want to include an insurance policy because it read as "employee store" on my paycheck. This is an Aflac policy but since it did not say Aflac he did not want to include it. I have the proof obviously that my lawyer will have.

To answer your question:

I am above the median income. The lawyers I spoke to said the ch7 is not an option even with exemptions.

What are examples of non-exempt assets?

I have a car that may have equity of 3-4k at most but still have 2 years of payments left.

My condo is in negative equity.

I have no jewelry or other assets with a lot of value.

I only have 401k and IRA brokerage accounts which are exempt.

Clothing and furniture and the like do not have a lot of value. If I did a garage sale of everything, I may be able to get 3-5k but then I would not have furniture, clothes, or anything. Plus I think there is some exemption for home goods like clothes and furniture to a certain value.

[justbroke]

Exemptions depend mainly on which State you live in. So, I can't tell you how your Automobile will fair. However, generally automobile equity is usually less than $2K in most States. I would also add that many States have wildcard exemptions and sometimes even an unused homestead exemption that could cover much the equity in your personal property.

Most law offices use BestCase. You can actually download a demo. But, I would caution that it's not a very easy program to use, as you still need to understand why you're putting certain values in certain places. I would recommend just taking the Means Test at Legal Consumer. What your lawyer comes up with and what you come up with for a DMI should be close.

Remember, your furniture should be able to be covered under exemptions. I haven't really heard of people losing their furniture, unless they have some serious furnishings! Remember, it's garage sale prices. What you could get in the next 10 minutes for it.

[okiemom2008]

Exemptions depend mainly on which State you live in. So, I can't tell you how your Automobile will fair. However, generally automobile equity is usually less than $2K in most States. I would also add that many States have wildcard exemptions and sometimes even an unused homestead exemption that could cover much the equity in your personal property.

Most law offices use BestCase. You can actually download a demo. But, I would caution that it's not a very easy program to use, as you still need to understand why you're putting certain values in certain places. I would recommend just taking the Means Test at Legal Consumer. What your lawyer comes up with and what you come up with for a DMI should be close.

Remember, your furniture should be able to be covered under exemptions. I haven't really heard of people losing their furniture, unless they have some serious furnishings! Remember, it's garage sale prices. What you could get in the next 10 minutes for it.

So say you bought a bedroom set for 2500 in Jan 2006. It is still in good condition with a few nicks but nothing bad. How much woudl you estimate its worth?

[justbroke]

So say you bought a bedroom set for 2500 in Jan 2006. It is still in good condition with a few nicks but nothing bad. How much would you estimate its worth?

First, immediately take 60% off (most furniture depreciates in 5 years). So, you're at $1,000 already.

Then if there are nicks and things, think about what you'd get at a yard sale this afternoon for it. Keeping in mind that you must sell it this afternoon.

I would venture to guess that it is worth less than $750 and probably less than $600 at a yard sale today.

[NEWBIE911]

Thanks for the input that a 22C will be required. I just need to educate / convince my lawyer to fill it out the way I want to. it is tough when I cannot see the software they use. I will probably give him my I, J, and 22C along with a document explaining where all the numbers came from. I know I am doing the legwork but if I do not I fear I may be forced to pay an extra $300-500 a month because he does not understand my expenses as well as I do. The 1st lawyer did not want to include an insurance policy because it read as "employee store" on my paycheck. This is an Aflac policy but since it did not say Aflac he did not want to include it. I have the proof obviously that my lawyer will have.

To answer your question:

I am above the median income. The lawyers I spoke to said the ch7 is not an option even with exemptions.

What are examples of non-exempt assets?

I have a car that may have equity of 3-4k at most but still have 2 years of payments left.

My condo is in negative equity.

I have no jewelry or other assets with a lot of value.

I only have 401k and IRA brokerage accounts which are exempt.

Clothing and furniture and the like do not have a lot of value. If I did a garage sale of everything, I may be able to get 3-5k but then I would not have furniture, clothes, or anything. Plus I think there is some exemption for home goods like clothes and furniture to a certain value.

Are you in NJ ? PM me - I am working with an attorney who is solid. He just filed me and I had all the same questions

[njguy1972]

Exemptions depend mainly on which State you live in. So, I can't tell you how your Automobile will fair. However, generally automobile equity is usually less than $2K in most States. I would also add that many States have wildcard exemptions and sometimes even an unused homestead exemption that could cover much the equity in your personal property.

Most law offices use BestCase. You can actually download a demo. But, I would caution that it's not a very easy program to use, as you still need to understand why you're putting certain values in certain places. I would recommend just taking the Means Test at Legal Consumer. What your lawyer comes up with and what you come up with for a DMI should be close.

Remember, your furniture should be able to be covered under exemptions. I haven't really heard of people losing their furniture, unless they have some serious furnishings! Remember, it's garage sale prices. What you could get in the next 10 minutes for it.

I took the means test, which shows that I can pay what the attorney says I can. The key is the items I mention above.

From what I read, typically a ch 13 person is not allowed a 401k contribution and student loans will be deferred. For me, that adds an extra $500 or so to the monthly payments. I am just trying to get as much wiggle room as possible in my plan.

The last thing I guess I can do is take out a life insurance policy and then cancel it 2 months after the bankruptcy is accepted.

I am also going to try and settle with the collection agencies for less than 50% of what I owe. Even with the taxes, this will be less than paying 100% through the trustee.

[justbroke]

From what I read, typically a ch 13 person is not allowed a 401k contribution and student loans will be deferred. For me, that adds an extra $500 or so to the monthly payments. I am just trying to get as much wiggle room as possible in my plan.

The thing on 401(k) and 403(b) and other retirement (ERISA) accounts is absolutely not true. While it varies by District how much flack you'll get, this was specifically added to the BAPCPA of 2005 to encourage savings for retirement by the Congress! Anyone who tells you otherwise is just wrong. I have continued my contributions at $14K per year without question.

The last thing I guess I can do is take out a life insurance policy and then cancel it 2 months after the bankruptcy is accepted.

Hmmm.

I am also going to try and settle with the collection agencies for less than 50% of what I owe. Even with the taxes, this will be less than paying 100% through the trustee.

Huh? Settle? Are you filing Bankruptcy or not? Generally CA settlements require a lump sum payment, or the full payment within 6 months or less. I'm willing to bet my Detroit Lions season tickets that the CA will cancel the agreement upon filing a Chapter 13.

[njguy1972]

Justbroke

I am filing ch 13 if the cards will not settle for a decent amount (like 25 cents on the dollar). 1 card sold my debt to a collector already and another is calling me about settlement options.

This will save me the negotiation with the trustee. My lawyer told me that they will try for 100% payback based on income. The 100% payback will be based on me stopping 401k contributions and deferring my student loan payments. My 22C has me paying back less than 45% but that may not be accepted by the trustee.

I am looking for a 40% payback after these expenses.

I understand the tax consequences and that you need to payback within a few months on a settlement. I am negotiating with a family member for them to loan me money at a sub 5% rate (home equity loan) if the cards will agree to a settlement. This is a family member that will give me loose terms since they understand my situation and want to help me out as much as they can.

As I have mentioned in other posts, this will help me compared to a ch 13.
1-have a credit card to use for work. This will be canceled in a ch 13 and my employer can say travel is required for my job and that if I cannot use a company credit card, I cannot perform my tasks. They would lay me off in that case.
2-I receive tax refunds each year that the trustee will take. I get year end bonuses most years (not this year though). The biggest scare is that the trustee may include the tax refund in my income for the monthly payment.
3-If the trustee says my disposable income is higher than I think it is, I will lose my condo since I will not be able to afford to continue to make payments.
4-If I need to get a new job, a bankruptcy will make it tough for me since I work in financial services.
5-In the employee handbook for the company I work I am required to inform my direct manager and compliance if I file bankruptcy. Failing to do so will subject me to termination. Settling the debt will not require me to inform anyone at work.