Do plan lengths change?

[Andyman]

If you are in a 36, 48 or even a 60 month plan, can the length of the plan change during the course of the plan? I read another thread http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=32099 where it was said, "My plan is estimated to be about 48 months, but I think I'll be done sooner than that as long as my job holds out. I'm paying back 2% to unsecured creditors."

I'm really hoping for a 48 month plan and if it somehow changed to less months I'd really be happy. I really hope I don't get stuck in a 60 month plan.

[HHM]

Here is what you have to understand in order to know why those people are in shorter plan.

First, a plan cannot be longer than 60 months.

Under the current law, the ONLY ways to be in a plan that is less than 60 months are
1. You will pay off 100% to your unsecured creditors in less time
2. You are below the median income for your household size.

My guess is, the person who is in a 48 month plan, is below the median income but is paying back a priority debt of some kind, and given her disposable income, needs 48 months to pay back that priority debt (i.e. missed mortgage payments, back taxes etc); or, she has a liquidation value issue where her unsecured creditors would receive 2% if she filed a chapter 7 and sold non-exempt assets. Otherwise, if you are below the median income, you can be in a 36 month plan and the creditors get what they get.

[Nicollette]

If you are in a 36, 48 or even a 60 month plan, can the length of the plan change during the course of the plan? I read another thread http://www.bkforum.com/showthread.php?t=32099 where it was said, "My plan is estimated to be about 48 months, but I think I'll be done sooner than that as long as my job holds out. I'm paying back 2% to unsecured creditors."

I'm really hoping for a 48 month plan and if it somehow changed to less months I'd really be happy. I really hope I don't get stuck in a 60 month plan.

I'm the one that said I hope to be done sooner. The length of my plan was originally based upon the fact that most of my creditors filed a claim, but they did not. I do have a secured debt in my plan, which is my car. They are getting 100%, but my unsecured are only getting 2%. The reason I'm hoping I can be done sooner is the fact that alot of my creditors did not file claims, but I have to be in my plan at least 36 months.

[NowImDownInIt]

I'm in a 36 month plan, below median and at 100% payback...

You'll be in a 60 month plan... I read in one of your recent posts that you gross 70k and you are single. That puts you well above median in every state I think.

[justbroke]

As HHM points out, under the new law (the BAPCPA of 2005), no one can get out without paying 100% to unsecured creditors, or being in the plan for no less than 36 months (if below median income) or more than 60 months (in all cases, and 60 months is the minimum for above median income cases).

That is, unless you're paying 100% to unsecured creditors in a shorter period of time. As HHM also points out, there are other things which may lengthen your plan (IRS and property taxes, mortgage arrearages, etc).

Everyone has been wondering if you could buy out of a post-BAPCPA plan for only the amount which you Plan pays to unsecured creditors. Absolutely not, seems to be the case so far. (Keeping in mind that the people who filed after 10/1/2005 are just starting to hit the 36 month mark.)

There was some rumbling that, perhaps, a 60-month plan person could buy out of the plan at month 36. Doesn't seem to be the case.

[mbutterfly]

justbroke, when we met with our attorney to sign our bk she stated that we can buyout our plan once we were confirmed. We just filled this week and we are in a 60 month plan, but not sure if we are paying 100%. My total debts were 240k and we are sch to start our first payment next month $316 @ month. Why would the attoney misinformed us?

[sassiebaz]

Can someone please explain how a CH13 works? How do they figure the amount you pay back? I have asked this question and cannot get an answer....Please inform me if you
can....

[justbroke]

justbroke, when we met with our attorney to sign our bk she stated that we can buyout our plan once we were confirmed. We just filled this week and we are in a 60 month plan, but not sure if we are paying 100%. My total debts were 240k and we are sch to start our first payment next month $316 @ month. Why would the attoney misinformed us?

There is no one who believes that post-BAPCPA (10/1/2005) you can buy out a Chapter 13 Plan for less than 100% to unsecured creditors.

Your attorney must be the first. He may believe it's possible because pre-BAPCPA it was possible and was done often. I haven't heard of one yet, post-BAPCPA.

[njguy1972]

I am by far no expert but by reading this board it does not sound like you can buy out of the plan unless you pay 100%.

The reason I say this is because people have claimed to give the trustee some extra in hopes of paying it down early only to find out that the trustee upped their percentage pay back. basically saying that if you can afford more, then you will pay your creditors more.

It sounds to me that if you are able to get some disposable income it is better to save it rather than try to pay down the plan early (unless yuo are paying 100%).

Hopefully I am wrong here but based on prior posts that I have read it does not sound so.

[Flamingo]

I am by far no expert but by reading this board it does not sound like you can buy out of the plan unless you pay 100%.

The reason I say this is because people have claimed to give the trustee some extra in hopes of paying it down early only to find out that the trustee upped their percentage pay back. basically saying that if you can afford more, then you will pay your creditors more.

It sounds to me that if you are able to get some disposable income it is better to save it rather than try to pay down the plan early (unless yuo are paying 100%).

Hopefully I am wrong here but based on prior posts that I have read it does not sound so.

No one, pre or post BAPCPA can buy out of a Plan without Trustee permission. Therefore, if one sends in extra money with a Plan payment thinking otherwise, that money is just going to be used to pay extra to creditors and will not reduce the amount of the Plan. Same goes for any extra funds (tax refund, bonuses, raises, inheritance) that the Trustee may receive. Your paragraph two above is correct.

[holding on]

Well throw my attorney into the pool of people who think post-BAPCPA you can buyout your plan after you have been in it for 3 years, even if you are less than 100% to unsecureds. I would be highly upset if on the advice of my attorney I sent a payoff request into the trustee and the trustee said no you cannot buyout and oh by the way give me that disposable cash you have saved up for the buyout thank you very much.

[Andyman]

I'm in a 36 month plan, below median and at 100% payback...

You'll be in a 60 month plan... I read in one of your recent posts that you gross 70k and you are single. That puts you well above median in every state I think.

My business grosses about $70K year. ..about $6K/month with about $4800 in expenses and I pay myself about $1200/month give or take depending on what kind of month I had. some months I just get by and others I have a little spending money left over.

[justbroke]

Well throw my attorney into the pool of people who think post-BAPCPA you can buyout your plan after you have been in it for 3 years, even if you are less than 100% to unsecureds. I would be highly upset if on the advice of my attorney I sent a payoff request into the trustee and the trustee said no you cannot buyout and oh by the way give me that disposable cash you have saved up for the buyout thank you very much.

I think you're going to find that the Trustee will require 100%. I just sat down with an Assistant Trustee and she was all about the 100%. Of course, your mileage may vary.

Maybe your lawyer is willing to litigate and defend an early plan buyout of less than 100% in a post-BAPCPA confirmed plan? Oh, and for free too.

So, yes, you can buy out your plan after 36 months... however, you need to pay 100%. There are loan programs designed for this, where you have equity in real property.