I need information...any information

[LostinCO]

[justbroke]

Do you own real property (a house)? Do you own cars? Are the cars financed or owned outright?

Yes... many more questions.

The lawyer will tell you which documents to bring. usually it's the standard identification, soc. sec card, last 6 months of paystubs, last few months of bank statements, insurance policies on any property, etc, etc.

It is possible that you could not qualify for a Chapter 13. It happens, but is rare. There are certain criteria you must meet, which includes, being able to pay at least as much to unsecured creditors that they would have received had you filed Chapter 7.

[fltoo]

If you post more info, many people here more knowledgable than I will help you.

But, why would you be in BK under the nose of the trustee for 5 years rather than just get it over in a chapter 7 if you qualify. Stop all cc payments if you plan to file and use cash.

When the BK is over, still use cash! To h#ll with your credit score. Get yourself settled and worry about your credit score after the dust settles.

[Flamingo]

Hello LostinCO! Welcome aboard. First, take with you to your attorney appointment a complete listing of all your bills, monthly payments, paystubs, sources of income, listing of all your assets (stocks, checking/savings accounts, house, etc.) and copies of your most recent state and federal income tax returns. You are in the "robbing Peter to pay Paul" mode which will eventually result in disaster when you hit or get close to those card limits or the bank sees what is going on and eliminates your available credit.

The attorney will gather from the information you bring in, talking with you, etc. as to what Chapter you will be able to file.

No bankruptcy chapter is better for your credit score - Bankruptcy is bankruptcy on a credit report. However, after having gone through a Chapter 13 myself and talking with our mortgage broker and several other financial folks and our attorney when we refinanced, your credit prior to filing a Chapter 13 and also how you conduct yourself during the years of your Plan in making all your Plan payments on time, other bills paid on time, etc. works in your favor after you are discharged. However, that advice was pre-this economy...credit as it was will be a thing of the past and it will be harder to obtain if there are BKs, foreclosures and repos/bad credit on your credit reports. Nothing really is guaranteed and you just have to look at what will work for you to help you as to your present situation and worry about the future later after you get out of the hole you are in now.

There is lots of great help on this forum. Best of luck to you!

[LostinCO]

I have to go pick up the kids, I will get you guys more info later.

Thanks so much!!!!

[LostinCO]

Ok, I will try to give some more info...We own a condo but I don't think we even have any equity since the market is so bad and we have only had it about 3 yrs. We have 2 cars both owned outright...Mine is a 99 with about 160000 miles on it, the other is a 2001 with about 100000 miles on it. We have about 46,000 in credit card debt. Yes, we have bought foolish thinkgs with are credit cards but the majority has been gas, groceries, medical bills, and car repairs for these old vehicles. What KILLS us is the 1120 we pay in daycare a month, but we are better off paying that as we can't survive on just the 1 income alone. The only stocks we have are in 401k's thru are jobs. Even if we can just eliminate all credit card debt we are still not great just because of the daycare but we could survive without the credit card game we have to play now. What kind of things do they look at to take from you and sell as far as personal property? Anything else you need in order to help more?

Thanks again.

Oh, do they take your tax return from you?

[LostinCO]

Anyone?...Sorry if I am being impatient, my head is just spinning.

[michele71]

for my 2 cents...just so you know if you go ch 13 or 7 your cars are an asset. since you own them outright they are worth something so the trustee will want you to sell them so they can recoup something---if they are over the exemptions. I know there is a certain exemption you can claim but look at the NADA to get an idea about what your cars are worth.

[Flamingo]

Have you read through all the informational "stickys" in this forum? There is a ton of information for you under both Chapter 7 and Chapter 13 stickys which will answer a lot of your answers and provide you with other information also. You are saying the daycare "kills" you each month but you both have to work even if you eliminate all the credit card debt. I am assuming one of you has a high income and one a low income? Not knowing your situation fully, it sounds like it might be cheaper in the long run for the parent making the less money to stay home which is a savings right off the bat of $1120 plus gas plus lunches plus work clothing, etc., etc. I don't know if you considered that in the scheme of things or cannot even consider it, but it is an option. Sometimes the cost of daycare outweighs one parent's income along with that parent's work/gas expenses. You might be able to survive if you can eliminate all the credit card and other payments. I know the entire thing is a scary thought but in any event, your entire family will have to do an extreme lifestyle change if you file a Chapter 13 as there is no credit available and you survive on a cash only basis. There is no money for hardly any "extras" and you will learn how to budget your money and after a few years really come to dislike credit cards when you see what you can do and how you can survive without them. It's a real eye opener...

Your 401(k)'s are exempt - do NOT touch them.

You first need to find out what Chapter you will be able to file. You really have to figure out also if you can afford that condo and you are also playing with older vehicles that would not make it through a 3 to 5 year Chapter 13.

[LostinCO]

Michele...Our cars have 160,000 and 100,00 miles on them...I certainly wouldn't think they are worth very much being a 1999 and a 2001.

Flamingo...My husband pays all the house expenses...morgue, utilities and what not. I pay the daycare and even after paying it I have $700 left that we really cannot be without. If we can get rid of the credit card bills it just means we could buy food, gas and what not with cash rather then credit. We both make ok money. I around $16 and hr and the hubby $19. Colorado is kind of expensive for housing and stuff.

Yes, we are going to see what a lawyer says...If they say chapter 7 is our best option then that is the way we will go. Like I said we are about $100 dollars below the median income for CO.

[Flamingo]

Michele...Our cars have 160,000 and 100,00 miles on them...I certainly wouldn't think they are worth very much being a 1999 and a 2001.

Flamingo...My husband pays all the house expenses...morgue, utilities and what not. I pay the daycare and even after paying it I have $700 left that we really cannot be without. If we can get rid of the credit card bills it just means we could buy food, gas and what not with cash rather then credit. We both make ok money. I around $16 and hr and the hubby $19. Colorado is kind of expensive for housing and stuff.

Yes, we are going to see what a lawyer says...If they say chapter 7 is our best option then that is the way we will go. Like I said we are about $100 dollars below the median income for CO.

I see your point and understand how you are struggling and it will just get worse as time goes on. When you sit down with the lawyer, you will have a better grasp on your entire situation and will know what you can and cannot do. Keep us informed...

[LostinCO]

Thanks for being so supportive. I ran across this forum by accident and was shocked there was such a thing. It is great how you people are willing to give your time to help others. Thanks, I'll let you know more after we see the lawyer tomorrow.

[michele71]

Lost...I understand that you feel your cars arent worth anything but when you file any asset becomes worth something. Like flamingo says the best thing to do is read the stickys and definetly talk to a lawyer. remember when you do your means test to remove all the credit card bills when figuring out your disposable income. The means test is only one step to figuring out which chapter you will fall under...when the laws changed in 2005 all you need is as little as 100 bucks left a month after the IRS deductions are taken and you will be put into a chapter 13 repayment plan. If you are trying to save your house or you have other assets this maybe the best option for you...I am still new to this but I have done alot of reading here and asking here as well...these guys know what they are talking about---BE EDUCATED no matter what so you arent lost when you go to your lawyer...here are the links to the IRS standards and the means test hope this sheds a little light for you---also when they run the means test they look at your GROSS income not NET.

means test @http://www.legalconsumer.com/bankruptcy/br_home.php

enter your zip


IRS standard deductions @http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/meanstesting.htm

I found this was a great place to start when I jumped into this check it out so you can get a feel at what you are looking at. I know this is not an easy place to be I just filed myself and I was not behind on any bills but just finding that I am living off of credit cards and robbing peter to pay paul...it gets old and now that I filed I pay 1780/month right now to be disbursed by trustee but of course this could change before it is all said and done--I am much better off than I was before. If you can go Chapter 7 that is the best way to go but if you have to do 13 it will not be easy I find even though I have more cash on hand than I have had in many years that it is hard to not have the credit cards to fall back on ..I can already tell this is gonna be a lifechanging experience but I know I will only come out wiser and stronger. Feel free to IM me if you have more questions about the means test stuff I would be more than glad to help you.

Good luck.

[LostinCO]

Thanks Michele...I have been doing a lot of reading myself, trying to get an idea of how this works. I did take the means test just to get an idea of where we stand. We actually came up with negative 71. I know it may not be 100% accurate because I am not sure it is totally right but I guarentee it is pretty darn close. Even if we could only do chapter 13 and pay 100 bucks a month we would be 100 times better then we are now. We are not behind on any bills nor have we ever been late but we to are robbing Peter to pay Paul and we are getting no where other then farther in debt.

[rrockinggramma]

This is just my 2 cents so take it for what it is worth.

I think that if you could do chapter 7 you should. Then I think you need to seriously look at your budget and decide just what is important and what isn't. You indicate that your "take home" after day care is about 800 a month (give or take) but that doesn't include the purchasing of your work clothes, your gas to and from work or food while at work. Add that in, and what are you really making? I know you said your husband handles the mortgage and utilities but without any other debt, credit card etc, perhaps you should consider cutting back on your working schedule or working part time and get rid of day care until your children are school age. It would be tight but then what will BK really do for you? It rids you of your credit card debt but you will still have 2 old cars that will have to be replaced and it doesn't replace 1100 a month in daycare.


Sometimes I think that if we could remove ourselves from our situation and look at it from an "outsider's" point of view, your answers would be obvious. Being right in it, it is hard to always see your way out of the cycle.

Just my 2 cents. . .