Keeping items outside of plan?

[getmeoutofhere]

Basically, you're getting there. Was there nothing on Line 46???

No. The only thing would be health insurance, but that is paid for by the company.

just don't know. If you're Current Monthly Income (CMI) is really $7,300 , it is interesting to have a mortgage payment that is over 50% of your gross. (Just a data point... nothing else.)

Bought the house when I was making ALOT more...DOH!

here is a run down of the numbers I have by line....can you plug into your sheet and let me know what you see?

2. 7300
11. 7300
15. 87600
16. 69210
18. 7300
24A. 1370
24B. 262
25B. 1195
27A. 232
28. 489
30. 750
38. 4298 total expenses
47. 3750 (1st), 1700 (2nd), 675 (car)
51. 6125
52. 6125+4298=10,423
53. 7300
56. 10423
58. 10423
59. -3123 (line 53-line 58)

[justbroke]

47. 3750 (1st), 1700 (2nd), 675 (car)

Here's one of the problems. You should not have the 2nd on there.

25B. 1195

You can't claim a house on Line 47 and claim the housing expense. Line 25B should be $1,195 - $3750... which is a negative number. So you enter $0.00 on that line.

For the $675 car, you're not going to be allowed that. and you don't get to put $489 on line 28. Line 28, should be $489 less your car payment. So, even at $675.00 you'd get $0.00 in that box.

Also for you car, you need to re-ammortize it over 60 months by dividing your balance by 60. If that's over $489.00 you can only put $489.00 in the line 47.

[getmeoutofhere]

That makes MORE sense...
That said, this would be my new numbers:

2. 7300
11. 7300
15. 87600
16. 69210
18. 7300
24A. 1370
24B. 262
25B. 0
27A. 232
28. 0
30. 750
38. 2614 total expenses
47. 4239 = 3750 (1st), 489 (car)
51. 4239
52. 2614+4239=6,853
53. 7300
56. 6853
58. 6853
59. 447 (line 53-line 58) SO THIS WOULD BE MY MONTHLY PAYMENT????

[NowImDownInIt]

That seems about right and fitting with your original post.

[justbroke]

Your payment to the Trustee would be...

Line 51 is the deduction for DEBT payment, and these generally go to the Trustee for payment. However, your Attorney is going to ask that the House and Car are paid outside the plan, so you'd subtract anything on Line 47 or Line 48 that has to do with the Car or House, from the amount on line 51

So, the answer is yes.

However, you have something else wrong. You get the housing allowance on line 25A (you just don't get the 25B one). So that's at least another $500+ to add in there.

Anyhow, I get -$52 (negative 52 dollars) for your DMI. That means, you pay the Trustee nothing.

You didn't mention if you're behind on anything or why you are filing, did you? if you have arrearages (past due payments) you need to factor those too.

[getmeoutofhere]

However, you have something else wrong. You get the housing allowance on line 25A (you just don't get the 25B one). So that's at least another $500+ to add in there.

If I am allowed the allowance on 25A, the amount from the usdoj website is $1195.

Anyhow, I get -$52 (negative 52 dollars) for your DMI.

If I get the allowance on 25A, then my DMI would be -$748 (negative 748 dollars)

That means, you pay the Trustee nothing.

That would mean that I do not qualify for a 13......??? I have to file 13, not 7

You didn't mention if you're behind on anything or why you are filing, did you? if you have arrearages (past due payments) you need to factor those too.

I am way behind on all credit cards and second mortgage. 1st mort and car are current.

[justbroke]

If I am allowed the allowance on 25A, the amount from the usdoj website is $1195.

I believe you're confusing Line 25A with line 25B. Line 25A is a standard "allowance" for non-mortgage expenses. This amount is generally under $600.00. (FYI, The Mortgage/Rent allowance is split into a Non-Mortgage/Non-Rent expense and a Mortgage/Rent expense. These go on lines 25A and line 25B respectively.) Based on what you said you put there, I looked up what you should have put on line 25A. That amount is $505 for "non-mortgage" expense for a household of 4, in your county.

If I get the allowance on 25A, then my DMI would be -$748 (negative 748 dollars)

See my note above.

That would mean that I do not qualify for a 13......??? I have to file 13, not 7

No, it doesn't, so let's talk...

Here's the real issue. Depending on your equity that you have and other non-exempt property, you could be in trouble with a negative DMI.

You are required to pay your unsecured creditors, at least as much as they would receive if you filed Chapter 7 and liquidated your non-exempt assets. That's to say, for example, if you had $10,000 of non-exempt equity (value) in personal property, you'd either ahve to surrender it to the Trustee for sale, or pay your secured creditors at least $10,000 over the life of the plan.

In your situation, the life of your plan would be 5 years (60 months), so you'd have to pay at least $167.00 a month to unsecured creditors for 60 months. Do you understand?

It's not so simple as the unsecured creditors get all of your disposable income (DMI). There are other factors

I am way behind on all credit cards and second mortgage. 1st mort and car are current.

You are OKAY then, as you won't need to pay arrearages! You don't have to add additional payments on line 48. Are your taxes up to date? I assume your taxes and insurance are escrowed with your 1st mortgage payment.

Let me add this. If you're at a $-52 DMI, and you need to pay unsecured creditors back $10K over 5 years (60 months)... nothing precludes you from digging into your "budget" and taking $167.00 and giving it to the Trustee to pay unsecured creditors.

In actuality, the Form 22C is just a view of your Current Monthly and Disposable Income and is used to determine the length of your plan, and generally, whether your plan is feasible. What really dictates whether you Chapter 13 Reorganization is effective... is your PLAN.

[getmeoutofhere]

In your situation, the life of your plan would be 5 years (60 months), so you'd have to pay at least $167.00 a month to unsecured creditors for 60 months. Do you understand?

I think I am catching on.....so let me say this then.

There are basically two parts? DMI and non-expempt assets?

DMI: If I have a negative DMI, that means that $0.00 would go to the unsecrued creditors.

Non-Exempt assets: If I look at this number, I come up with $20,200 in non-exempt. That means I would pay $336.66 per month ($20,200 / 60) for this part.

Add the DMI payment of $0.00 and Non-exempt asset payment of $336.66 for a total montly payment to the trustee on behalf of the unsecured would be $336.66???

Does this track?

[justbroke]

IAdd the DMI payment of $0.00 and Non-exempt asset payment of $336.66 for a total montly payment to the trustee on behalf of the unsecured would be $336.66???Does this track?

Well, you don't have to "add" the DMI to the non-exempt. The non-exempt monthly payment would be the MINIMUM you would have to pay.

For example, say your DMI was $400.00 and your non-exempt assets divided by 60 was $337.00. You'd pay $400 to the plan / Trustee!

Are you sure you have $20K in non-exempt assets/equity? Have you thoroughly reviewed your right to Exemptions? AZ is very Debtor friendly and I wish my State was so liberal with it.

I mean, AZ has an exemption for 6 months worth of food for the Debtor's family!!! Wow!

[getmeoutofhere]

Are you sure you have $20K in non-exempt assets/equity? Have you thoroughly reviewed your right to Exemptions? AZ is very Debtor friendly and I wish my State was so liberal with it.

I mean, AZ has an exemption for 6 months worth of food for the Debtor's family!!! Wow!

No, I am still going thru that schedule to make sure I get all of the exemptions. I was just using the 20K as an example.

What would happen if you have a negative DMI and less than $10,000 in exemptions? Would they make you pay the minumum of $167?

[justbroke]

What would happen if you have a negative DMI and less than $10,000 in exemptions? Would they make you pay the minumum of $167?

To be a confirmable plan (one that the Bankruptcy Court will accept), the plan must pay to the secured creditors, at least as much as they would receive if you had filed under Chapter 7 and liquidated your non-exempt assets. This was added by the BAPCPA of 2005 to basically make more Debtors file Chapter 13 over Chapter 7.

So, if you had $10,000 in non-exempt assets, then regardless of your DMI being -$100 or -$1,000, you could only get your plan confirmed if you pay $166.67/month to the unsecured creditors. Aha, but there's a catch!

Your plan must also be in good faith. Say you had a -$1,000 DMI and you're barely scraping by. If you had to also take $166.67 out of your allowable budget to pay them, that plan is just not a good one. It's presented in bad faith.

Sometimes, a Debtor who wants to protect property files Chapter 13, only to learn that they are in the unique situation (financially) that they can't file a Chapter 13 because the can not have what is deemed an effective reorganization.

[getmeoutofhere]

Thank you so much for walking me thru this Justbroke!

You have been a tremendous help and I think I fully understand the situation now!!!

I will follow up to this post after I meet with my attorney on Nov. 6th and update everyone on the final numbers as FYI....

Thanks a ton for you time!