Condo Assn Fees

[gregorino]

I'm geting it together to do a Pro Se Chapter 13 and am not sure where to list my Condo Assn fees on the Form 22. A paralegal told me to just list them along with the mortagage on line 47. Anyone have any experience with this? Thanks!

[lrprn]

Filing Ch 13 without a lawyer is a tremendous risk. Some Ch 13 portions of the 2005 bk law remain quite gray and rulings on them vary from district to district, even court to court within the same district.

Almost all Ch 13 lawyers fold most of their fee into the Ch 13 plan, so if you stop paying your non-secured creditors, you should be able to save up the initial smaller portion of the fee fairly quickly. Now that I've given the standard warning about the real dangers of filing Ch 13 on your own....

We have one member here who intends to file a pro se Ch 13 (if he hasn't already). Hopefully he will see your post and provide an answer. The rest of us here who filed Ch 13 did it using a bk lawyer, so I don't know how much help we are going to be around details like this with your forms

[HHM]

Unless the association has gone to the trouble to file a lien with the county recorders office, past due condo assoc. fees are an unsecured debt. However, you need to realize, you must begin paying the fees in full and on time after your case is filed.

[StartingOver08]

HHM, you said the fees have to be paid in full and on time after the filing. Does that hold true if I am surrendering the house too?

[HHM]

Maybe we should back up, if you are surrendering your house, why are you filing chapter 13. (I would guess you earn too much income, but most people will typically try to retain the house if they file chapter 13).

To answer your question, you MUST pay the condo assoc. dues until the title goes out of your name, i.e. until the foreclosure is complete.

Realize how this will go down...
1. You stop paying your mortgage.
2. File chapter 13, you state you are going to surrender the home.
3. Lender files a motion to lift the automatic stay.
4. Lender proceeds with regular foreclosure.
5. Once foreclosure is complete, then the house has been officially surrendered.

You will still be responsible for Condo Association dues from the time your file BK until the foreclosure is complete (i.e. the deed is out of your name).

[StartingOver08]

I am sorry HHM I am not the OP. I am surrending my house in CH 7 BK - I did not mean to thread jack.

[HHM]

I am sorry HHM I am not the OP. I am surrending my house in CH 7 BK - I did not mean to thread jack.

Opps, didn't notice..

In any event the advice is the same, just replace line 2 with "file chapter 7".

The dues that become due AFTER you file your BK, but before your name is taken off the deed through forelcosure are your responsibility, thus, we are talking many months of dues. You have 2 choices
1. Pay them on time and in full each month.
2. Not pay them, and you will simply have a debt you owe after BK which will probably find its way into the hands of a collection agency at some point.

[StartingOver08]

Thank you. Wow...they are taking a loooong time to foreclose here (South FL).

I filed 9/30/08. My 341 hearing is Nov 3 2008. Do I pay the fees during the automatic stay too?

[HHM]

If the assosn. dues are a problem, I would simply time your BK and file it the day before the sale date. Thus, when the lender lifts stay, they can immediately set the sale date. and you would only be responsible for about a month or two of dues.

And yes, you would pay any "new" dues during the automatic stay.

Fore example, if your dues are due on the 15th of very month, then you would file on the 16th. The next months dues you would be responsible to pay.

[gregorino]

Filing Ch 13 without a lawyer is a tremendous risk. Some Ch 13 portions of the 2005 bk law remain quite gray and rulings on them vary from district to district, even court to court within the same district.

Almost all Ch 13 lawyers fold most of their fee into the Ch 13 plan, so if you stop paying your non-secured creditors, you should be able to save up the initial smaller portion of the fee fairly quickly. Now that I've given the standard warning about the real dangers of filing Ch 13 on your own....

We have one member here who intends to file a pro se Ch 13 (if he hasn't already). Hopefully he will see your post and provide an answer. The rest of us here who filed Ch 13 did it using a bk lawyer, so I don't know how much help we are going to be around details like this with your forms

Wow...I got the impression, after reading through this forum, that lots of people went Pro Se...No, huh? Well, if anyone knows how to get Condo Fees on the form 22, regardless of the Pro Se part, please chime in!

[gregorino]

If the assosn. dues are a problem, I would simply time your BK and file it the day before the sale date. Thus, when the lender lifts stay, they can immediately set the sale date. and you would only be responsible for about a month or two of dues.

And yes, you would pay any "new" dues during the automatic stay.

Fore example, if your dues are due on the 15th of very month, then you would file on the 16th. The next months dues you would be responsible to pay.

I should clarify; I'm not behind on any dues, and in no danger of losing the condo...When all of our credit cards pulled our credit report and recalculated our Debt/Income ratio, all of our rates went from around 10% to around 30%!! We had been keeping up, albeit barely, but when payments tripled we were toast. We always kept up on our house payment and condo fees. Which, BTW, is why so many people are getting foreclosed now, or one of the reasons anyway. When things go south, it's the credit cards that should get paid last, not the house payment! Anyway....I digress....So, I just want to be able to include my $345/month condo assn fee somewhere on the form 22 so that it will reduce my monthly disposable income accordingly. Thanks!

[justbroke]

Wow...I got the impression, after reading through this forum, that lots of people went Pro Se...No, huh? Well, if anyone knows how to get Condo Fees on the form 22, regardless of the Pro Se part, please chime in!

No. Only the people with nothing better to do than to potentially mess up a few things, and lose a bunch of money, file pro se.

[justbroke]

I'm geting it together to do a Pro Se Chapter 13 and am not sure where to list my Condo Assn fees on the Form 22. A paralegal told me to just list them along with the mortagage on line 47. Anyone have any experience with this? Thanks!

I'm going through a similar issue right now myself. My taxes and insurance are not escrowed with my Mortgage, and they are so significant, that I don't want the Trustee to earn $120.00 a month, just for paying them. (That's what happens when you put it on Line 47)

I'm going to correct what I wrote. I actually put mine on line 26, but I know that's not the usage for that line. It should, technically, be included as another component of the cost of your home/condo.

My short answer is, I don't have a really good answer.

[gregorino]

Sarcasm noted, J.B. However, I'm holding you up for inspiration to move forward on this, so go easy on me, huh?!
I'm just digging into schedule B...We're going to file just under my wife, as all the credit cards were in her name and we live in a community property state...so wouldn't ALL property on this schedule be community? I also listed the condo on schedule A as community, even though the loan is in her name only...

[gregorino]

I'm going through a similar issue right now myself. My taxes and insurance are not pro-rated into my Mortgage, and they are so significant, that I don't want the Trustee to earn $120.00 a month, just for paying them.

I have listed additional amounts on Line 57 (Special Circumstances). It does affect your Disposable Monthly Income, but it's not something that is paid by the Trustee... so it doesn't affect the Trustee's fee (Line 50).

Yeah, that seems workable....Thanks!