newbie...desperate

[notsoHappyMomma]

Hi! I am new. I am pretty much at the end of my rope...I need some help, some advice. Reading through a few posts, I am glad to have found a place where everyone seems so nice.

We (DH and I) filed ch 13 a couple weeks ago. It was a very hasty process in order to avoid foreclosure. One day we were in the "talking stage" the next day we were signing papers. Things are just so bad...I try and be optimistic, but I just can't anymore. DH makes about 105 a year...well above our state average for household size. The largest part of our income is bonus...which is not the same every month...it varies-plus it is heavily taxed. The payment we have to make each month is 3600, plus 1300 still owed to a family member-that is not included in the bankruptcy....we just can't do it and pay the utilities, food, etc. The suburban broke down earlier this week, and we had no choice but to fix it...to the tune of 1200. We have a large family, and need 7 seatbelts. It is an older model and paid off.

After a long night talking, we decided there was just no way...we either had to add in the loan from the family member or look into other options. I tried to call my lawyer/paralegal this morning, and the front desk LITERALLY would not allow us to talk to them. She was quite rude and said that no changes could be made until after the hearing-so there was no need to bother the busy attorney or paralegal? The payment is due the 26th and we don't have the money....not because we have spent it on stupid stuff...because we had to pay the repair bill. I had the shop print out a detailed bill, so I could show the attorney all the repairs were, in fact, needed. But they won't even talk to us? Everything has been rush, rush, rush and I need it to slow down a bit! I need to figure out which direction to take?? I sent an email, and have not received a reply?? I just don't know what to do. I am about at the end of my rope...what can be done? please help me.

[soleprop]

i'm sad you didn't include the family member initially in your payment plan; had your attorney advised it? sounds like you may have a little bit of sorting out to do now, but you'll get through it!

[liz417]

I think you need to breathe...you are so stressed I don't think you are thinking clearly. Take this weekend, read, read, read everything you can about bk on this forum, then write down everything you want to ask your attorney. Go on Monday to his office and park your butt in the lobby until he sees you/makes an appointment for you. You are paying him good money, therefore he should take the time to see you. Yes, he is busy, so have your list of questions/concerns ready and be concise and get to the point. Let him know you are unable to make the payment. Have you paid him in full?
$3,600 is a large monthly payment, how did he/you come up with that figure?

Try to stay strong, everything will work out. At least you are in the right direction now (filing BK)....

Liz

[rrockinggramma]

your other option is to tell the family member that you are suspending payments to them until your attorney can amend your bk to add them as a creditor. This family member will have to file a claim to get paid and then you will have to let them know that you will finish paying them back after discharge. Filing an amendment to add a creditor can be done and you will need to make your attorney aware. I wouldn't say "family member" I would just say, hey we did this so fast, forgot to add some creditors.

You will have to stop and breathe and then prioritize. If you really want to save your home, you will make that trustee payment. I know cars breaking down is an issue. That is why "rushing" into a chapter 13 is not always wise, but to save your home, I understand.

Read the threads here. We are all here to help if we can. But tell that family member, no money until you get it from the trustee.

Sounds like your attorney is swamped too.

[keepmine]

The first thing you need to do is ask yourself if, is the house worth saving? Do you have any equity in it? What is the proposed percent payback to unsecured creditors?

[Flamingo]

What you have to learn to do and what I believe you have not been doing is budgeting. Chapter 13 will force you to do that or the entire process will collapse. You would not have been approved for your Plan if the attorney and Trustee felt you could not make the payments. They want you to succeed, not fail, in your Plan. In the past you were probably used to the high income and having money to do as you wished/wanted. While the income is still high, you now have to put it towards debt and learn to save some of that for household or car repairs. Tough? Yes...been there. Had many nights of crying and sleeplessness. But if you want to keep your house and get through this, it is well worth the effort. If you simply cannot or don't want to learn how to budget, your plan will fail. You must also ask yourself if you truly think you can afford the house.

Your family member should either be told they will have to wait a while for repayment or that you will include them in your Chapter 13 and they will be paid on a monthly basis from the Trustee. That's plain and simple. As to your lawyer, you are supposeed to make those payments on time no matter what and if there is an emergency such as a water heater in your house going or your transmission blew on your car, you contact the attorney immediately if you don't have the funds saved or budgeted for that purpose and he can help you - sometimes the Trustee will allow you to skip a payment that month and extend it one month at the end of your Plan. If you simply cannot make ends meet on your Plan, you can look into having your plan modified if possible or truly think about if you can afford the house.

You will learn more about financies in the next several months to come while going through this than you ever could imagine. Take the time to learn from it, the world will not end, and believe it or not, this will all get resolved in one form or the other and if your learn to budget and handle your money after all this, in several years it will all be a thing of the past. Best of luck to you.

[notsoHappyMomma]

What you have to learn to do and what I believe you have not been doing is budgeting. Chapter 13 will force you to do that or the entire process will collapse. You would not have been approved for your Plan if the attorney and Trustee felt you could not make the payments. They want you to succeed, not fail, in your Plan. In the past you were probably used to the high income and having money to do as you wished/wanted. While the income is still high, you now have to put it towards debt and learn to save some of that for household or car repairs. Tough? Yes...been there. Had many nights of crying and sleeplessness. But if you want to keep your house and get through this, it is well worth the effort. If you simply cannot or don't want to learn how to budget, your plan will fail. You must also ask yourself if you truly think you can afford the house.

Your family member should either be told they will have to wait a while for repayment or that you will include them in your Chapter 13 and they will be paid on a monthly basis from the Trustee. That's plain and simple. As to your lawyer, you are supposeed to make those payments on time no matter what and if there is an emergency such as a water heater in your house going or your transmission blew on your car, you contact the attorney immediately if you don't have the funds saved or budgeted for that purpose and he can help you - sometimes the Trustee will allow you to skip a payment that month and extend it one month at the end of your Plan. If you simply cannot make ends meet on your Plan, you can look into having your plan modified if possible or truly think about if you can afford the house.

You will learn more about financies in the next several months to come while going through this than you ever could imagine. Take the time to learn from it, the world will not end, and believe it or not, this will all get resolved in one form or the other and if your learn to budget and handle your money after all this, in several years it will all be a thing of the past. Best of luck to you.

Thank you all for your advice...and yes, Liz, I do need to calm down. Thank you for that reminder...

We do realize we have to budget and already have one in place. The problem is the entire process was so rushed that things were missed and hence our current problem. Can we afford the payments at 3600 in two months? Yes...as long as we either don't pay back the family member or fold the payments into the BK-which I realize would push it up a bit. But we were so negative, that as of now, there is just not a way. And since I can't get my attorney on the phone, I don't know what action to take. I think I will take the "plant my butt in the waiting area" approach come Monday.

I do want to save the house and if all goes according to plan, the BK will actually be paid off early. We do have equity...although not a bunch. But, if we were to give up the house, where in the heck would we live?! Can you even buy or rent with poor credit? If it helps get us out of this, and we could have a roof over our heads, I would be willing to let it go..anything to help. We can build another house in the future...right now I just want out of debt...and I swear I will NEVER do this again. We are in therapy...we are learning. I am aware that our lifestyle will change...and we have already made drastic modifications-those have been in place for months, and we fully intend to make more. But, we did not "plan" this....I have read many posts on here where people planned and saved cash for months before they filed. This was our last resort. We did not want to do it, (not that anyone does), I just mean we were in denial. We literally made the decision in two days...when we saw that there was no other way to save our house or our butts. I realize now this was a bad, bad decision...we should have researched and planned when all the troubles started. But, sometimes you just can't face things. That was us. I know that did not help our situation....actually made it worse, but it is what it is. When we filed, we had no extra....and were negative in our account five days later. I suppose we waited until we literally had nothing to get our heads out of the sand.

Plus, the more I read on here, the more I think we may have gone with the wrong attorney. Our cousult was literally 20 minutes, and was rushed. The questions answered were vague at best...and I am sorry, I deserve at the least a phone call back. Not to be told by the front desk clerk that nobody had time to answer a question that would take 2 minutes to answer. Since we have not gone to any hearing or anything, can we withdraw everything and start from scratch with a different attorney? I read on here that someone did that. I also read where most of you interviewed two or three attorneys?? Maybe we need to do that and find someone who will, at least, be willing to answer a question. I realize it will be more money...something we don't have....but I would gladly pay more to have the peace of mind that I am not just another fast-track BK.

Thank you for listening and answering my questions...suppose I should have found this place and done research BEFORE this point...live and learn. Denial is a powerful thing. I know we will come through this stronger and wiser....but getting to that point is a pain in the bootay!

[AngelinaCat]

Hi Momma:

Welcome to this forum. We are a pair that also have sung the chorus: "If only we had found this forum first! We would have been far more prepared and educated about the BK that our attorney ever thought to prepare us for." In other words, we aren't happy with our attorney either, and plenty of mistakes have been made--boy have we done some stupid things--but we had not been told not to do those things. Search on our nicknames, AngelinaCat and AngelinaCatHub, when you have a few minutes and you'll see some of our situations.

All of that is a long way of saying, that no matter how bad it looks now, it can be corrected, and things WILL get better. For one thing, having this forum to read, post, vent, and learn from has been a God-send to us, and has helped us to keep what little shred of sanity we still have.

Again, welcome, and hang in there!

'Cat and 'Hub

[Flamingo]

Plus, the more I read on here, the more I think we may have gone with the wrong attorney. Our cousult was literally 20 minutes, and was rushed. The questions answered were vague at best...and I am sorry, I deserve at the least a phone call back. Not to be told by the front desk clerk that nobody had time to answer a question that would take 2 minutes to answer. Since we have not gone to any hearing or anything, can we withdraw everything and start from scratch with a different attorney? I read on here that someone did that. I also read where most of you interviewed two or three attorneys?? Maybe we need to do that and find someone who will, at least, be willing to answer a question. I realize it will be more money...something we don't have....but I would gladly pay more to have the peace of mind that I am not just another fast-track BK.

Thank you for listening and answering my questions...suppose I should have found this place and done research BEFORE this point...live and learn. Denial is a powerful thing. I know we will come through this stronger and wiser....but getting to that point is a pain in the bootay!

You will find out that you do not have to "rush" around as you are doing. Nothing is leaving the planet and no one is going to show up at your door to take away anything at least for quite a while if at all!

First, attorneys do not return calls immediately unless it is a dire urgent life and death situation. A Chapter 13 question is not. That does not mean that the law firm or attorney is ignoring you; attorneys handle hundreds of clients and if they are a BK firm handle maybe thousands and thousands of BKs. No one is experienced in BK when they consider filing. It is a very complex matter and no one really wants to file. Yes, there are those that use it as a budgeting tool, filing BK after BK, and live their life doing that. Running up and discharging debt. 98% of the people who file get to a certain point where they put themselves in denial and things get so bad they actually wonder what happened until reality eventually hits and the dam breaks.

It is going to take years for you to get back to any sense of normalicy. Right now if you feel you rushed into things too quickly, either get another appointment with your attorney and go over everything or consult with one or two other attorneys to see what they have to say. Then make a decision as to what you want or can do. The attorney you consulted probably sensed your urgency and acted on it quickly to placate you to help you out as much as possible to get things moving for you. As I stated, unless your situation is an extreme emergency, do not rush and try to calm down and realize the entire situation is solvable and will eventually be solved and completed, although right now it all seems out of control! :-)

[rrockinggramma]

and just tell your relative to relax and repay them after this is over. I bet within a year of making those payments, you will find your life in much better shape and then you will be able to handle it. Right now, overwhelmed is what we have all experienced.

[berrymom31]

3600 sounds like a very high figure. My hubby and I together make around 98,000, not that much less than you and we could soooo not afford 3,600. We have three kids to feed and clothe and if you need 7 seatbelts I'm assuming that you do to! Is your house payment being payed inside the plan? If so, then that would make more sense. I'm sure if you sat down with your atty and went over all the numbers the payment would drop. Did you go over every penny you spend, sports enrollment, monthly dues to dance and etc.....even entertainment is allowed within reason. You need to demand that you see where your money is going!

I have been so stressed that I gave myself the shingles a few months ago.....I know how you feel. When it rains it pours..you have to keep your life in perspective though...when I feel really low, I just sit back and realize that my family is healthy and were all together and safe and we will get through this.

[notsoHappyMomma]

After thought and reading on here-for most of the day..lol...and doing some research here in town, I have one question.

Is it possible to call the attorney we are dealing with now and tell him thanks but no thanks. Then, turn right around and speak with two other attorneys, decide which one will work best for us, and start over again from scratch. According to the people I have talked to, the attorney my DH chose is a good one for a simple case...cut and dry BK. For more complicated cases involving higher incomes, future annuities and business buyout stock, and partnership in a business (all of which applies to us) the friend I spoke with, who filed many years ago after a very ugly divorce, suggested two others.

I am more that willing to work with the current attorney if he will actually see me Monday, which they were not willing to do Friday, and work with us. I realize this is not a life or death emergency...I do. But, it is a situation that needs attention in the next few days. My friend said her attorney or paralegal always returned phone calls or emails within a day....especially in the early stages when she had not a clue what was going on. I feel if I am going to be dealing with this person for the next few years, we need to have a good professional relationship. Friday was the first time we have called since our consultation...so I don't feel that is excessive. I realize they probably have clients who call for every little thing...that is not us. I don't want a babysitter or BFF, I simply want someone who will answer an occasional question if needed.

So, if any of you are knowledgable in our options, I would greatly appreciate some input so I can go into Monday with a plan. Yes, I would like to keep the house. Yes, we were in foreclosure when we rushed to file. No, we don't have any extra money at all. We would have been able to swing it...until the car died. We need some time to recover. Life pretty much blows right now....but....

You guys are so right...we are all healthy, and nothing is leaving the planet...lol. We will survive this and we should have never, never rushed. Lesson learned!

[parsoc48]

Don't dismiss your attorney until you have at least 2 other consultations. It won't be easy to find someone who will jump in, but at least it's very early in the process. And if it saves you money over the 5 years then it will be worth it. Maybe you'll get some satisfaction from your current attny. on Monday!
This is a difficult process; we had 2 1/2 mos. from consultation to filing and had TONS of questions. Good luck to you!

[notsoHappyMomma]

Don't dismiss your attorney until you have at least 2 other consultations. It won't be easy to find someone who will jump in, but at least it's very early in the process. And if it saves you money over the 5 years then it will be worth it. Maybe you'll get some satisfaction from your current attny. on Monday!
This is a difficult process; we had 2 1/2 mos. from consultation to filing and had TONS of questions. Good luck to you!

So, if we were to find another attorney, they have to come in from the place we are at now? You don't start the process from scratch with someone new?

Thanks for your advice. I do hope I will have some luck on Monday with our current attorney. I have read on here, made a list of questions, and have a positive attitude. However, I have names and numbers of two others I plan on calling if things do not go well or my current attorney still refuses to talk to me or see me.

[rrockinggramma]

If you dismiss, you will have 2 bk's on your credit report. One that shows dismissed and one that shows "filed" until discharge. I know that credit score should not be a reason but just to let you know that fact.

You can always voluntarily dismiss your case and start over if you think that is best.

Or you could talk to the other 2 attorney's and get their opinions (they might be reluctant due to a colleague) but worth a shot, then dismiss the one attorney with a motion of the court and hire the new one with an amended plan.

Definitely you should have an attorney you feel comfortable with.

However if you have arrearage for secured debt in your plan, to dismiss and then refile shows "bad faith" to the court and the automatic stay has to be motioned to be extended after 30 days and the judge rules on that (I haven't seen too many ok's here in Michigan) but every district and trustee and judge is different so to fire one attorney and sign up another is probably your best course of action.

Spend this next week talking to those other 2 and see what gives.