Filed Pro Se

[justbroke]

I just filed Pro Se for protection under Chapter 13 of the U.S. Bankruptcy Code. That was a LOT of paperwork!

Going to the Clerk's Office was fun... I was out of there in less than 5 minutes. It was worth going, because the local form on their website is different from the local form they are using. Go figure!

Now it's fun telling all the creditors that the automatic stay is in affect. Actually, I was in the middle of a MODIFICATION of my mortgage on my investment property. We had completed the deal and I called today to talk with the Negotiator. She said she can't help me anymore because she talked to the Bank's attorney, and they informed her that I filed Chapter 13.

I was able to probe the Negotiator and asked her "if the Trustee agrees can I get the same modification deal?" (The deal put all the arrearages into the loan). She said yes, so I have to wait to talk with the Trustee.

I'll keep everyone up to date on what happens at my 341 meeting.

ETA: I have a PACER account and see my case is in the system. Will check PACER daily as the fun now begins.

[AngelinaCat]

Congratulations on filing pro se!!! Good luck to you, and I hope there won't be any bumps in the road.

BTW be very careful of checking PACER every day. Each time you click and look at a page it is $.08. That may not look like much, but it adds up very quickly. We just got a bill the other day for the past quarter and we owe $128.00 that we could sure use someplace else.

[liz417]

Hi Justbroke!

Congrats...you are well on your way!

[justbroke]

Congratulations on filing pro se!!! Good luck to you, and I hope there won't be any bumps in the road.

BTW be very careful of checking PACER every day. Each time you click and look at a page it is $.08. That may not look like much, but it adds up very quickly. We just got a bill the other day for the past quarter and we owe $128.00 that we could sure use someplace else.

Yes, PACER is fun, but CAN be expensive. I'm up to $34.00. The not so funny thing is, I ran up about $3.00 in charges today searching for some sample Plans (I have plenty that have been filed with my Trustee), and I couldn't find ANYTHING. Finally found out that I was on the regular U.S. Federal Court system (oops). Was wondering why there were NO Bankruptcies, but just a lot of Crack Cocaine... errr... Methamphetamine dealers' cases!

So far so good. The Clerk was impressed with the package I filed.

[justbroke]

BTW be very careful of checking PACER every day. Each time you click and look at a page it is $.08. That may not look like much, but it adds up very quickly.

I just thought of something. Instead of keep looking at the SAME things in PACER (on my case), I download everything that's attached to a Docket entry. That way, I don't have to get hit with the fee to pull it a 2nd, 3rd, 4th... time.

BTW, I ran a query for a well known BK lawyer, by name. Yes, the results alone cost me about $6.64! He had so many cases (83 results returned)! At least for a single document retrieval, they only tag you with the first 30 pages... but they don't seem to do that on queries (that I can tell). When I was done just dumping a few of his cases (and one entire Petition), I spent $21.44!!!!

Maybe we should have a PACER FAQ?

FWIW, I have everything organized pretty well, I think.

[AngelinaCatHub]

Justbroke. Yes, Ms. Cat and I do that. We download and rename by the docket number and our own description our case. You then can print it to paper as well. 'Hub

[justbroke]

I'm having some still RUDE collection people bothering me. I finally got to the legal department (for one) and told them that there is an automatic stay in affect and that they cannot collect on the debt and no more calls.

The phone actually stopped ringing. They were calling every 20 minutes to harass me on my cell phone!

That's the nicest thing... the negotiations needs be organized and through the Court and Trustee and need to be done in a professional manner. That's about the only thing that I really like about having filed.

[MajorMike]

I give you credit for filing 13 PRO SE. Good luck with the 341. Hope all goes well.

[justbroke]

I give you credit for filing 13 PRO SE. Good luck with the 341. Hope all goes well.

Thanks! I've been boning up on all the relevant cases at least for the objections I expect to my preliminary Plan!

I am avoiding a couple of non-possessory non-PMSI liens. Then I'm cramming down a 2 year old car loan but it was a refinance so it's non-PMSI that should be fun. (The car was bought in 2003 and refinanced in early 2006. So I should be able to do that.)

Everything else is really straightforward, except they may bug me about my DMI. Oh well. My Trustee is allegedly one of the nicer ones and tries to stay neutral. I've read some of her answers to motions and she just states facts and no opinion at all.

I've looked at about 100 confirmed plans in my district as well as some in other districts. I think I have a good (faith) Plan. Can't wait to see who shows up at the 341!

I will tell you though... filing Chapter 13 pro se is not for everyone. I've read that most pro se filers (in Chapter 13) fail somewhere. I've spent about 160 hours so far researching, planning, carefully checking this and that, and I am still faced with Local Rules and Bankruptcy Procedure. It is certainly not for anyone who isn't meticulous (I'm not that meticulous) and is highly organized (that I am).

Today, I've been collecting docs for the Trustee (banking statements, tax refund, etc). Everyday I find a new twist, but it's a solid 90% I think.

[Flamingo]

[QUOTE=justbroke;178296]I will tell you though... filing Chapter 13 pro se is not for everyone. I've read that most pro se filers (in Chapter 13) fail somewhere. I've spent about 160 hours so far researching, planning, carefully checking this and that, and I am still faced with Local Rules and Bankruptcy Procedure. It is certainly not for anyone who isn't meticulous (I'm not that meticulous) and is highly organized (that I am). QUOTE]

Now you know why attorney's charge so much for their services, plus they have staff who assist them that also get paid. On top of that, they have the legal knowledge that one filing pro se has to research (and hope it is correct) and if one doesn't have the ability or the time, it just takes one mess up to blow the whole thing. After going through my Chapter 13, I would never consider filing pro se and I have a paralegal degree. The time involved without help is insane and all details and knowledge have to be correct. I have to give those filing pro se credit and they really need to thank a lot of folks on here for the free advice they receive for filing that they would have to pay for elsewhere. But they really have to be sure that advice is correct for their state/situation cause they can mess up bad if it is not.

[MajorMike]

I agree Flamingo. I'd pay an attorney $5K or more to handle this even if I had to eat ramen noodles for months!

[justbroke]

I agree with Major. I wouldn't want anyone else to try this. The only thing I think someone may want to try is a Chapter 7 Pro Se. The Chapter 13 is just too drawn out.

Today I had to prepare (not file) three motions and one "proposed" order. I don't encourage anyone to do this at all. Reminds me... I need to take another backup of everything...

You need to be meticulous, version your files, deal with what motions you're gonna file. Deal with ones you're required to file (Motion for Wage Deduction Order)... The fun hasn't even begun yet with two other motions I'm working on (Motion to Value Security) and then all the Objections I'm sure I'll have to deal with.

I think I'm going to sit in next week on some of the hearings. I looked up my Judge's calendar and will pull some of the interesting files and see what it's like in front of her. Actually, I've already pulled some of them.

[AngelinaCatHub]

As far as I am concerned, I started with 13 and a lawyer. Went to 7 later due to job loss, and I might as well have gone pro se. This lawyer is no real help. ‘Hub

[funspot08]

Best of luck to you! I filed pro-se three years ago in Chapter 13 for my wife and I and I was proud that I was only the second person in this district (one of busiest in the country) that the trustee had ever approved, and this was a very long standing district trustee.
Filing with the 'new' bankruptcy code is an even more daunting task with all the new parameters.

We successfully have finished the plan and the trustee has put an order into the court for our discharge, so it CAN be done!

A few quick tips: Most likely, the trustee will object to something in your plan. We were lucky as I spoke to an attorney at the trustee's office about an objection to the plan and he pointed out a few little issues with the plan along with the objection. They can't give you legal advice, but if you get a nice person to deal with at the trustee's office with issues relating to objections to the plan, you might get a few "well, if it was me, this is what I would do.. but remember, that's me and I can't dish out legal advice for you."

Best of luck to you and believe me, it can be done!

[justbroke]

Latest news...

Nothing interesting happening in PACER. Just notices of appearance.

I completed my plan and it pays unsecured creditors 75% or better. (That's if the Trustee only gets th 7.5% that they are supposed to. If the Trustee takes 10%, then the unsecured get about 71.5%. Interesting that no creditor ever Objects to the Trustee's commission! )

The plan is 6 pages (7 including the mailing matrix). I have to mail it to 40 "interested parties"/creditors tomorrow. I asked the clerk of the court if they will notify the folks, and she says no.. but sometimes the case manager will. Oh well... here goes around $50.00 to mail out the plan. I'll be able to file for Administrative fees with the Trustee.

So, I just printed 320 pages to stuff in 40 envelopes... oh boy. Wish I had a paralegal or clerk myself.

I just can't wait to see the objections. I think that's the most interesting part of this whole thing. Everything else is just... really predictable. The objections are not.

I also calculated and calculated and calculated (have my own Form B 22C Excel spreadsheet that also calculates payments over the term specifically by creditor. It's really complex and has about 8 sheets in it.) I can defend any number quite easily on my laptop. My local court actually encourages use of computers even in the courtroom. So anyhow, my calculations predict that if my department store ("purchase money security interest") creditors go for secured status, they'll get no more than if they just claim as unsecured because I would file a 506 valuation on them (since I haven't purchased anything in over a year on any of them). Some of those secured creditors, I haven't purchased for 3 years (furniture). So, should be interesting.

I'll keep updating you guys. I have to go file my Plan with the Clerk tomorrow and then mail out these 40 envelopes.