NO money left????

[ozzy866]

Hello
My wife and I filed a 13 and went to the 341.
Our payment is $2098.19, this includes mortgage, car payment and trustee/lawyer.
I travel to and from work over 350 miles each week. I have an upcoming hospital procedure which my insurance will pay 80/20, I had some dental work done with out of pocket owing $500.
We have all our regular living expenses in schedule J.....
We are going to be in the negative.
We just went to the 341 2 weeks ago and have made one payment.
What can or should we do.
I can live being broke but not in the negative......
Thanks
Oz

[BigJohn]

How much income do you bring in each month?

[ozzy866]

Wife and I NET = $4149.08

[ozzy866]

I don't see how we can do this?????????????

[lrprn]

I don't see how we can do this?????????????

When you signed the Ch 13 forms and your plan was filed, did you think you could make the payments?

Call your lawyer immediately and explain what's going on. Some trustees are willing to allow you to skip a payment or split a payment when you have unexpected required costs that must be covered. It's definitely worth a try. Also contact your healthcare providers to see if a payment plan can be set up that will stretch what you have to pay out.

If you truly cannot maintain your payments as confirmed, then you need to work with your lawyer to see if amending your plan is a possibility. However since your plan was just confirmed and your income and expenses haven't changed permanently, it's an uphill battle to explain why you didn't do something before the confirmation was done.

Since you just are getting started in your 13, plan on putting off any optional health or other procedures until you can build up an emergency fund to handle those costs like the $500 out-of-pocket dentist cost. Also come clean with your healthcare providers that you are in Ch 13 and have very little disposable cash at the moment. See if they will set up payment plans for you. You won't know until you ask.

This is the toughest part of Ch 13 - how to handle unexpected expenses. Every ounce of effort needs to go into saving up as much cash every month as you possibly can to get a little set aside. Not having an emergency fund is what kills most Ch 13 plans. Hope you are able to sort this out with your lawyer and trustee. Hang in there!

[ozzy866]

heres what we have

Our house and one car and 1% unsecured and trustee/lawyer fees are in trustee payment.

Our total income Net per month for my wife and I = 4242.76

Does this look right and do we have enough to live on.
The counseling fees were ok'd and verified by trustee.


Trustee Payment 2098.19
Gas & Elec 160
Water/Sewer 60
Phone 80
TV/Internet/Trash 115
Home Main/Repair 30
Food 500
Clothing 50
Laundry 30
Medical/dental 45
Transportation/Not Car Pay 350
Recreation 50
Auto Insurance 125
Counseling 550
TOTAL 4243.19

TOTAL INCOME 4242.76

[BigJohn]

Why so much for counseling?

Do you have health insurance? And if so, how good?

[ozzy866]

We have "OK" insurance but the counseling that is required is out of network and we have a year long history of over 550/mo out of pocket and letters from doctor and therapist.
Does this plan look affordable?
Oz

[Flamingo]

Your plan payments is $2,098.19 which includes your car and house payment. Your net take home is $4,242.76. That leaves you $2,144.57. Unless you have a very large family, I am a bit confused why you cannot make it on that amount. Unless the counseling is absolutely necessary, that frees up another $550 per month making available $2,694.57. If you cannot survive on that, something is wrong; the lifestyle change after a Chapter 13 hits everyone hard and I know how hard it is to cut back when one is used to having money available for everything. You just cannot live the same way you did prior to filing.

Bills incurred after your filing are your responsibility and cannot be included in your Chapter 13 filing. There will be many things to hit; car repairs, house repairs, dental bills, etc., etc. Saving as much as you can on the side is the way around that because you do not have credit to fall back on.

If you really have problems making the Plan payment, talk with your attorney but from what I see that you have posted here, you have pretty good leeway in your Plan and should not have any problems.

[justplaintired]

I only wish we had that much to live on each month after our bills are paid. I think maybe you need to rework your budget, cut some things. You seem to have a reasonable amount left over after your bills are paid. I think if you look it over, you will see some people don't have near that to survive on before there bills are paid, you have that with your bills paid. I realize that you still have to buy groceries and clothes and such, but still it totally seems doable to me. Sorry, but I just don't get it, we live on less, actually quite a bit less.

[Flamingo]

I made an error in adding in your $550 on to your amount available. What I meant to post was that it would free up $550 toward your other expenses if the counseling is not absolutely necessary and not a matter of urgency. That is a large amount for a service that can be applied toward gas, other expenses, etc. I would certainly look into cutting that out and when things are better in the future, go back to it if needed. Chapter 13 is not easy and requires major lifestyle changes that some have difficultly handling causing payments to be late or missed and the eventual failure of the Plan. Consult your attorney as to a plan modification if you really feel that squeezed and are concerned that you cannot make the necessary cutbacks.

[chloe0724]

Flamingo,

I can see how it looks to pay so much for counseling, but I can say that we do the same and it is a necessity. My husband has major depression and other mental issues that require us to go to counseling 4 times a month and see a psychatrist once a month. Like the OP, our counsler is out of netowrk so it costs more. But in a siyuation like ours, we needed someone we felt confortable with and she has been amazing!!

I wish we could put that additional amount to other things, but then I might loose my husband.

[Flamingo]

Flamingo,

I can see how it looks to pay so much for counseling, but I can say that we do the same and it is a necessity. My husband has major depression and other mental issues that require us to go to counseling 4 times a month and see a psychatrist once a month. Like the OP, our counsler is out of netowrk so it costs more. But in a siyuation like ours, we needed someone we felt confortable with and she has been amazing!!

I wish we could put that additional amount to other things, but then I might loose my husband.

It appears they have been going for over a year and that it is not a life threatening counseling situation and appear to have a normal job/home situation from what has been posted. If they need those additional funds, it may be worth their while to check with the dr. and therapist to see if further counseling is needed on a monthly basis or can be stretched out to less visits to free up some funds. We all have choices and issues and with rising gas costs and other costs, trying to survive a Chapter 13 is hard and some things that are not despirately needed have to go. Of course if there is a medical requirement for counseling that is a different situation and financial difficulties could add to that; but they always have the option to have their plan modified if they cannot cut back enough to make those monthly plan payments.

[ozzy866]

It is a medical requirement that will last at least 2 years.
We are going to look at our budget closer today.
With the counseling in the budget does our chap. 13 look functional?
It is just my wife and I.
OZ

[jwbbx]

I have a brother who has diagnosed mental health issues, and for him to just keep things going day by day is a job in itself. He requires both counseling and medication, and believe me finding a counselor that he could connect with and trust was a LONG process. Once that relationship is in place it's hard to give up, so I don't agree with those that would downplay the importance of that. Counseling is not always for a short term problem, if you've never encountered the long, chronic, painful to watch need for it, then consider yourself blessed and please just accept that it happens and leave the rest to the medical professionals. {{Steps down from Soap Box}}

The budget numbers do not look out of line to me, but I'm new at this. Putting it all together though, it kind of looks to me as if with that counseling there may be enough expense here to convert to a Chapter 7?? Not on the first part of the means test but the second? The OP indicated the Trustee has already taken that counseling amount as legitimate, and the plan is only paying 1% to unsecured, so the majority of the 2098 is house and car payment which I believe would come out in Part 2.

Am I misreading this? Otherwise I don't see much room to maneuver here, maybe cutting a bit on phones and recreation. That 350 mile commute is a killer and eats up most of that car allowance just in gas.