Preparing for the worst

[Help!]

As some of you know, we filed for Ch. 7 with poor legal advice and have now filed a motion for dismissal. We were hoping to catch up on our accounts and tread water for a while until I get a job or my husband gets a raise, but after reading about the lawsuits that can ensue immediately after dismissal I know I need to be prepared in case we have to file a Ch. 13. I'm going to be posting like crazy for a little while, only because I have so many questions and I trust you all much more than my current attorney.

First, can a Ch. 13 trustee force you to remove your children from a private school (with a religious affiliation)? The amount we pay is more than the IRS standard in the Ch. 7 means test.

Second, can a Ch. 13 trustee force you to stop tithing (contributing 10% of your gross income) to a church?

Third, I know exemptions vary from state to state, but is there a general range of "typical" asset value for a 13? We have a mortgage and a HELOC, but we are willing to hand over the house. We have two new cars we own outright - how likely is it that we would get to keep them?

I am not afraid of what my husband and I are going to go through, but the thought of moving my kids to a new school (especially after a cross-country move five months ago) is worrying me sick!

[Scott50]

in regards to tithing- as long as you can provide the trustee proof over an extended period time- six months (??) I don't believe it will be an issue..

[diviaruba]

Wow, two new cars owned outright is going to be a tempting target for the trustee, who can be expected to oppose your motion to dismiss. Haven't seen many exemption schemes that would cover even the most basic newer auto that doesn't have a secured debt behind it. I wish you luck.

[MomIcantFindmy]

I agree with Diviaruba, I would expect the trustee to oppose your motion.

If you get your case dismissed and then file a 13 you won't have the court protection from lawsuits until after your plan is approved.

As far as tithing and private school tuition in a 13, it usually depends on the trustee and whether you are 100% payback or not. I would expect some legal maneuvers by your attorney and the trustee regarding the tuition.

Chapter 13's are generally used if you are over the median or need to protect your assets (such as 2 new payed off cars) so you should be able to exempt those in a 13.

There is no typical asset range that I know of as every situation is different. It sounds like you will need a very good lawyer to help you with your 13. I would start interviewing now even if you do not intend to seek a 13...just in case.

Keep us posted. Best wishes.

[rfassett]

Help! It has only been a week or so since your 341 and you are throwing in the towel? Where is your stick-to-it-iveness? Some 7's have quirks, but that does not mean it won't fly in the end. Take a little time and read the threads that I started about my case. Read the wonderful responses that I received from this group. My wife and I filed pro se on November 2, 2007 and were discharged on April 14th, 2008 - but not before we were put through the wringer with the DOJ and the U S Trustee. We did not have two newer cars free and clear but we had other issues. Check it out.

[Flamingo]

Get a good lawyer and expect issues as to the tuition and tithing. Chapter 13 is not a walk in the park and a big lifestyle change. A lot depends on your trustee and state and your attorney will correctly inform you.

[chloe0724]

My attorney said that a federal ruling was made regarding charitable contributiuons. As long as you can prove a history, you will be ok.

[Flamingo]

My attorney said that a federal ruling was made regarding charitable contributiuons. As long as you can prove a history, you will be ok.

And I am sure a reasonable amount and not the percentage expected by the church (ours expects 7%+ of your weekly income). The church is not a creditor and tithing is a voluntary donation.

[laurannm]

I believe on forms 22A and 22C you are allowed up to $137.50 per child, per month for education\tuition expenses. But, as others have said, a lot will depend on your trustee

[tcauvet]

I can respond to the tithing portion by experience. I am in Ch 13, and am not paying back 100%. I tithe 10% of my gross to my church, and simply had to supply bank statements to my attorney. The trustee did not have a problem with the tithing. In fact, I think the exact words went something like, " I'm not going to argue with that- I don't want God to get mad at me!"

[epiphany]

And I am sure a reasonable amount and not the percentage expected by the church (ours expects 7%+ of your weekly income). The church is not a creditor and tithing is a voluntary donation.

Um, I truly am trying not to offend here as tithing is unfamiliar to me.

But, can someone explain to me why anyone in dire straights (i.e in BK) would be donating money to a church, other organization , or anyone else?

The church expects it?

I don't get it,

ep

[rrockinggramma]

under the new bk rules, tithing is acceptable as long as it can be proven that it has been done on a continuing basis and not begun just prior to filing for BK. Some in the past have had to justify the school expenses by saying why that school was the best for their children etc but in the end, I believe that it was allowed but every situation is different.

In a chapter 13 of course you can keep your cars, so you would probably be ok.

[arkienurse]

Um, I truly am trying not to offend here as tithing is unfamiliar to me.

But, can someone explain to me why anyone in dire straights (i.e in BK) would be donating money to a church, other organization , or anyone else?

The church expects it?

I don't get it,

ep

Not the Church itself, but for those of us that are of the christian faith, we are taught in the Bible that we are supposed to give one tenth of what we have to God to honor him. And many do not look on it as a donation, but an actual obligation.

[flower04]

Our attorney said that we could continue to tithe as long as we had the cash flow for it and like, previous posters, can show that we have been doing it for an extended time prior to filing.

[Flamingo]

We stopped tithing due to our severe loss of income prior to filing, informed our church who totally understood and said that it was not necessary to continue and when times were better, we could again begin our weekly donations, which we did after discharge or randomly as we could during our Plan when we had an extra few dollars. It is not something that is expected by the church if one is having financial difficulties.