trustee forcing me into 7?

[hughthehand]

Hello all. I filed a 13 pro se. A month ago, the trustee sent me a copy of the letter highly recommending the court to accept my plan. I went to my confirmation hearing today where the trustee pulled me off to the side and told me he was doubleling the payments to $1200 a month. I've been scraping to make $600. Just looking for some input.

[southernbelle]

Did the Trustee find some extra disposable income somewhere? If not, how could your payments double? How much were you paying to unsecured creditors? Was there a priority debt that needed to be repaid 100% and you thought differently?

I'm sorry, I just don't get that. I'm not an expert by any stretch of the imagination on a chapter 13, but if you have $600 in disposable income each month, how can it double if you don't have it? What do your Schedules I and J show? Did you get any indications of trouble before the confirmation hearing?

And I admire you because I don't think I would have the courage to file a chapter 13 without a lawyer. I wish you all the best.

[MajorMike]

My question is..why would you EVER file 13 Pro Se????

[diviaruba]

My question is..why would you EVER file 13 Pro Se????

Yet another snarky comment that offers no assistance to the OP, only purpose is to make them feel worse. No wonder people are cursing at you.

[car67]

Hugh did you know you can hire an attorney with a small down and the rest of the fees can be put into the Chapt 13 and it really doesnt change your payment all that much. My advice would be to ask the court to postpone the 341 hearing pending legal represenation being sought I would go that route if your trustee is tossing you uncomfortable curve balls thanks Joe

[JollyGG]

I agree with other's that it might be time to seek out a lawyer.
Chapter 13 and pro-se rarely mix well. I can only think of one person on this board I have seen do it sucessfully in the time I have been here. Everyone else who attempted it either ended up seeking representation to straighten things out and deal with the trustee or they got the bk dismissed and refiled later with a lawyer.

May I ask why you choose the pro-se route? Was it lack of funds? Trying to save an asset with little time? Or why?

It is hard to find a lawyer who will jump in in the middle of a case but it is possible to do so. One recent member asked the clerk at the bk court for a recomendation of someone who might be willing to take on a case that had already been filed.

Chapter 13s typically involve lots of back and forth between the lawyer and the trustee before a payment is agreed on and really someone going pro-se is at a serious disadvantage simply because they don't have an established relationship with the trustee and they don't know all the ins and outs and tricks to make things work.

[hughthehand]

I've already had the 341 hearing. The reason I filed pro se was lack of funds. All the attorneys I talked to wanted in excess of $3000 and only half of that could be rolled into the bk. I had to file and file fast (auto repossession, bank refused to work anything out). The IRS stuck their ugly nose into it. My returns are filed, but they want me to owe more than what I actually owe. I know, its truly turned into a mess. The trustee moved for a 60 day continuance on the confirmation hearing. It's ironic, usually the trustee tries to force a person into a 13 from a seven. It seems just the opposite for me. Maybe I should've filed a seven to start with and acted like I don't care.

[JollyGG]

I've already had the 341 hearing. The reason I filed pro se was lack of funds. All the attorneys I talked to wanted in excess of $3000 and only half of that could be rolled into the bk. I had to file and file fast (auto repossession, bank refused to work anything out). The IRS stuck their ugly nose into it. My returns are filed, but they want me to owe more than what I actually owe. I know, its truly turned into a mess. The trustee moved for a 60 day continuance on the confirmation hearing. It's ironic, usually the trustee tries to force a person into a 13 from a seven. It seems just the opposite for me. Maybe I should've filed a seven to start with and acted like I don't care.

Wow, with IRS debt in there I think you might need to resume your search for a lawyer who will let my roll most of their fee in the bankrutpcy.
IRS debt is confusing. The original debt amount is considered a priority debt that must be paid in full, and recieves payment before anyone else. However, the fees, interest and penalties are handled slightly differenly.
Additionally the auto repossesion can be a little tricky. As their can be issues of how long you have owned the vehicle.

Did the car get repossesed and you are dealing with a deficiency balance or were you filing to prevent a repossesion?

If your original payment amount would not have allowed you to pay the IRS in full and the full amount of the vehicle you are trying to keep (assuming you are keeping and assuming you are including the vehicle in the plan) then your payment amount would need to be raised to be able to pay those two debts in full.

[Cali]

I agree with almost everyone, that you need to find an attorney that will work with you and get this straighten out.

Good luck!

[hughthehand]

I filed to prevent repossession. Without that vehicle, I'm out of work.

[JollyGG]

I filed to prevent repossession. Without that vehicle, I'm out of work.

How much do you owe on the vehicle? How much is it worth? How long have you owned it?

How much do you owe the IRS? What year are the old taxes for? What year did you file the taxes?

Additonally - Are you above or below the median for your family size and state?

Sorry, for all the questions but without the answers I can't even begin to help you with your question.

[Dirk Squarejaw]

Yet another snarky comment that offers no assistance to the OP, only purpose is to make them feel worse. No wonder people are cursing at you.

Without CityGirl, how else are we to get "MY BK IS DOUBLE SUPER-AWESOME SO ITS YOUR FAULT IT'S NOT WORKING OUT FOR YOU"-type comments to shoot down other filers' self esteem?

Props to the OP, though. I'd never have the guts to file a 13 on my own. I wish I had some advice for you, but I hope things work out for you in the end.

[hughthehand]

I've figured out, the trustee is going by how much I made in the previous two years. In the last six months, I've barely cleared $1000 a month. The market isn't what it used to be. I guess I'll have to spend $25 and convert to a 7. I've lost everything. There is no way in hell I can pay $1200 a month, feed myself and keep a roof over my head. Thanks for your help all. And- good luck to all.

[petej]

Hey hughthehand, it just sounds so arbitrary to me. I thought the Trustee had to go by the means test? Not what you made during the previous 2 years. Maybe someone could chime in.

Whatever happens...good luck.

Pete

[HHM]

You can just let it go to court and let the judge decide. Worse case scenario, your case gets dismissed, and you start over. Judges tend to be sympathetic to debtors, so you could actually win.

Note, it will be very hard for you to pull off a 7 if you have already demonstrated that you have disposable income to fund a chapter 13. Also, a 7 may not be in your best interests with the repo and IRS debt.

What kind of IRS debt are we talking about, 1040 income tax related, or 941 Trust Fund issues.