luxery items and spending

[brokeNconfused]

Im still a bit confused on this matter. I am sure i have made stupid purchases in last 90 days over $500. probably on all my cards. Is it possible to still get these included on my bankruptsy? how does the judge hold you responsible and require payback to company?

I used a credit card from dec to feb17th. there is about 1200 charged on it now most within last 45 days . Most is grocieries and gas, but this seems like a lot in month does it not? Its just the one card and i didnt spend any money from my bank account. This card was rarely used until Dec. Will they figure this is fraud? its not for luxury.

Now i have to pay $400 to set up a coupon payment process to make my house payment. It was directly taken from my bank and paid, but i am giving up our SUV and am afraid the bank willclose account and take my payments and apply to late payments. SOO lost but plan to file at end of month.

[Flamingo]

You know yourself there could be issues with those purchases or else you would not be questioning them. The trustee will be looking for fraud (i.e., purchases of nonessential items in the months preceding filing) to see if one planned a spending spree and then filed. That was prevalent in the Old Law and the new law cracked down on the rampant fraud that was going on - some people used BK as a budgeting tool, consistently spending and filing. I would be prepared to explain all those purchases and keep your receipts.

[woeisme]

If you are filing CH 13 shouldn't be as much of a problem as with CH 7 because you are proposing to pay back some of it. At least that is what my attorney said because I was worried about $1500 of dental work (root canal/crown work that I had to have mid-June and charged). I ended up not filing until mid-Sept after all so was just past the 90 days, but originally planned to file sooner and lawyer still didn't think it would be a problem because I had a 65% payback plan in CH 13, so he said would be very unlikely the creditor would object even though I'd only made 2 payments on the charge, and he was right, there was no objection. If you are filing CH 7, you might have problems though.

[MajorMike]

Woeisme, not true!! Amex filed a complaint on my charges within 60 days BUT I'm only at 5% payback and I'm thinking that has something to do with it. If I was at 65% or more, they would get their money anyway, and wouldn't bother.

[brokeNconfused]

i do have reciepts for most and it is groceries and clothing for me at work. Its 600ish per card right?

[wooisme]

Every case is different! Just because it happened to you doesn't mean it's going to happen to someone else. It mainly depends on if the creditors object. Even if you used credit cards in those 90 days you STILL have to list them. I used gas cards up until ONE month before I filed and no one had a problem with that at all. No one objected. I'm talking about an ongoing account that was like $3,000.

Now if you used your card for food and essentials then they would more than likely let that slide ...if you went out and bought a brand new $30,000 CAR that would be a different matter entirely...

EVERY case is different. Every trustee is different, every judge is different and creditors do it case by case. I took cash advances in most of my credit cards over the years and i'm ashamed to say, I have 39 creditors and 39 accounts I'm paying back. with all those accounts I didn't have NOT ONE creditor who objected to the plan and that was adding our car loan to the plan.

This forum has been a Godsend for me while I was going through all my mess and in most cases everyone was caring, loving, supportive. I just don't like it when people point fingers and say things like "well you should know better" or "you know you did wrong or you wouldn't be mentioning it"

No one really is an authority here and everyone has had different circumstances and experiences. Unless you happen to be the trustee on a specific person's case....nothing is etched in stone!

[MajorMike]

Exactly what I'm saying Wooisme! Everyone has a different....well.."EVERYTHING" LOL
I'm just stating that just because you're in a 7, doesn't make one bit of difference anymore. In old law, creditors could not object to discharge in a chapter 13 and now they can. Anything charged within 90 days of filing is presumed NON-DISCHARGABLE. Whether or not the creditor files is individual per case and per creditor but it is happening to us right now. Amex wants to take us to court for dischargability of the debt.

[MajorMike]

woo, I'm confused by your saying:

Even if you used credit cards in those 90 days you STILL have to list them.

You have to list ALL your credit cards....so I'm confused what you mean. Can you please explain....

Gas is a necessary expense. Many charges aren't considered so.

[Cali]

This forum has been a Godsend for me while I was going through all my mess and in most cases everyone was caring, loving, supportive. I just don't like it when people point fingers and say things like "well you should know better" or "you know you did wrong or you wouldn't be mentioning it"

[wooisme]

When you file bankruptcy....
You have to disclose ALLLLLL your debt that you owe...that's what i mean........doesn't matter if the debt is 20 years old and you still owe it or if you have debt that is 30 days or 90 days old. you still have to disclose all debt that you owe.

[MajorMike]

When you file bankruptcy....
You have to disclose ALLLLLL your debt that you owe...that's what i mean........doesn't matter if the debt is 20 years old and you still owe it or if you have debt that is 30 days or 90 days old. you still have to disclose all debt that you owe.

Ok, but what does that have to do with anything in this post? I think that's where I'm confused....

[wooisme]

"Is it possible to still get these included on my bankruptcy"

the question was asked if this person can add in those debts in her plan.......this person is concerned because the debt was incurred during 90 days.

I'm saying that it doesn't matter. you STILL have to declare the debt! You have to disclose ALLLLLLL your debt on the schedules.......even if it was incurred within 90 days.

that's why this was mentioned in my post

[MajorMike]

LOL Ok wooisme! You are correct and I apologize for not seeing that...Thankyou for clarifying!!

[chloe0724]

So if you made purchases for more than $500 less than 90 days prior to filing, can the trustee throw your chapter 13 away?

[lrprn]

So if you made purchases for more than $500 less than 90 days prior to filing, can the trustee throw your chapter 13 away?

It's the creditors that may object to those purchases, not your trustee. Worst case scenario is that a creditor objects to the charges made on their card and proves you knew you could not pay when you made the charges. Then you could end up paying back that one creditor in whole.

Your Ch 13 can be dismissed by you voluntarily or by your trustee after "unreasonable delays by a debtor which are prejudicial to creditors, non-payment of fees and costs required under the bankruptcy, failure to timely file a plan, or seek confirmation, material default in the performance of the plan, termination, or revocation of the confirmed plan." (from http://www.lawdog.com/bkrcy/bkcp13i.htm)