Including vehicle on Chapter 13

[GeorgiaFarmer]

Are you required to include your vehicle payment on the Chapter 13 or can you continue to pay it yourself?

[vleisme]

I believe it depends on when the loan will be paid in full. If it will be paid off during your ch 13 then it will be paid through the plan .If the car loan is longer than the plan payment ,you can pay it yourself. I had two secured loans that will mature before my 60 months of ch 13 payments. I was not given a choice. They will both be paid by the trustee then when they are paid off I have to continue paying the same amount the money just now goes towards the unsecured creditor payments.

[mcdulph]

You have to include the existence of the debt in your plan. As I understand it, you tell the trustee via your "plan" documents that you will continue to pay the creditor directly or "outside the plan".

I may have heard something about certain trustees insisting on your paying the car note "thru the plan" so that they'll get their cut of the money. I could be wrong about that, though.

Good luck!

[NewHope]

ALL DEBTS big or small must be included in a 13, if not it may be grounds for a dissmissal.

[southerncomfort]

It is to your benefit to include the vehicle in your plan becuase then you only pay the "crammed down" value of the car, i.e., the current actual value. Thus, if you had a failry new vehicle that you bought for $42,000 new (took out a loan for $42,000), say 6 months ago, today it would be worth, oh probably , $33,000. So you would pay the $33,000 as a priority secured claim and the remaining difference would go in the unsecured section where you pay little or nothing or back.

If you keep it out of the plan, you pay the full$42,000 or whatever you agreed to when you signed the loan. It is my understanding that trustees prefer that your vehicle be included in the plan for the reasons mentioned above--fees.

[AboutToBK13]

If I am not mistaken, you must have had the vehicle for 900 days to cram it down to FMV.

To the OP, debts such as cars and houses, depending on the district that you live in, included in the plan.

[southerncomfort]

If I am not mistaken, you must have had the vehicle for 900 days to cram it down to FMV.

To the OP, debts such as cars and houses, depending on the district that you live in, included in the plan.

Oh that might be the case now--I have no idea. But, it definitely wasn't under the old law (thankfully for me!!)

[stljohn]

ALL DEBTS big or small must be included in a 13, if not it may be grounds for a dissmissal.

that is absolutely and completely false.

if debt is not included you don't get protection of bk, you are on your own.

[CindyLou]

You must include all debts on your schedule, but you may work out who gets paid inside the plan and who gets paid outside of the plan.

Generally you need a reason to continue paying outside. For example, my brother continued to pay outside the plan because the lienholder and creditor is our father. Another reason could be if you have 0% or .9% interest and paying inside the plan would raise your interest to the plan amount. There are reasons and would have to be worked out with the trustee.

This is another one of those things that varies from district to district.

[kmb]

We have 2 car loans, a mortgage and a HELC and they were all listed on paperwork and are part of our budget, but we make all the payments outside the plan directly to the lien holders. I think as long as your payments are current when you file, you can do this--our attorney asked us everytime we talked to him if our payments on all these things were current, so my guess is if they weren't, they would have been included.

[253BK]

I am pretty sure as long as you are on time with that loan they can be outside of the plan! Also the cram down is only good after 900+ days now or I would be out buying a brand new something LOL!

[HHM]

ok ok ok....


1. In any BK, you have to LIST all your debts and all your assets in your BK Schedules. The schedules are essentially the same for both chapter 7 and chapter 13. The schedules are "informational" and by law, you're required to LIST all debts and assets.

As you all know, the chapter 13 also includes the Chapter 13 repayment plan.

2. Usually, secured debts on assets that you wish to keep can be, and if at all possible should be, paid "outside the plan". All that means is the debtor will continue to make payments directly to the creditor. Most chapter 13 plans have a check box, or some other way of indicating that intent. In some districts, trustees insist that car payments and/or mortgage payments are to be paid "in the plan". Honestly, I don't know the reasoning behind it and if it were me, I would fight tooth and nail NOT to do that, reason being, you are now paying an additional interest rate above what the creditor charges (i.e. the trustee fee). I think sometimes, if the debtor was behind on payments, the trustees use that as justification to force the debtor to make their regular payments inside the plan, but still, this is an issue that needs to be fought.

3. Cram downs can only be done on cars in which you have had the loan for more than 910 days.

[stljohn]

Solely in the interest of accuracy and not to be argumentative you are not required to list all debts. If you don't chose to list a debt then you do not receive protection of the BK for that debt and are responsible for paying outside the plan. I chose to leave a couple of debts out of my 13 and the atty said it was my choice.

[HHM]

Solely in the interest of accuracy and not to be argumentative you are not required to list all debts. If you don't chose to list a debt then you do not receive protection of the BK for that debt and are responsible for paying outside the plan. I chose to leave a couple of debts out of my 13 and the atty said it was my choice.

Well, if you want to be "accurate" then you ought to take a gander at section 521 of the BK code.

(a) The Debtor SHALL--

(1) File--

(A) a list of creditors

And so there is no confusion, the BK Code defines creditor as (Section 101(10)(A)) "An entity that has a claim against the debtor that arose at the time of or before the order for relief concerning the debtor;"

Not sure there is really any ambiguity in those sections about the Debtor's duty to list ALL liabilities.

You are correct, that the main practical consequence is that the debtor is not protected from that debt, but lets be clear, it is a violation of a debtor's duty under the BK code to intentionally omit creditors from their BK which, conceivably, could result in a dismissal of the BK.

[Cali]

Does it matter the amount owed on the vehicles?
The payments on the vehicles?
The age of the vehicles?

The reason I am asking is because I have 2 vehicles, I want to keep('05 and '06).

Thanks