I don't understand what we're paying?

[CindyLou]

There's no indication of what your non-secured creditors will receive because until they have had a chance to file claims after you file, there's no way to know how much of your payment will go to which creditors. Regular non-secured creditors have 90 days and the government has 120 days to file claims to be repaid in your case.

It's interesting that you are above the median in income but your lawyer is filing a three-year plan. How much above the median are you?

Yea, I thought you could only file a 36 month plan if you otherwise qualified for a 7 (below the median) and were filing a 13 only to save assetts....

[jnjw]

Our gross income is $20,900 above the state median.

See, that's what I'm wondering - if we'll even get 3 years because on Form 22C, that little box is filled in for "the applicable commitment period is 5-years," but on our petition, the plan atty has there is for 3-years?

[lrprn]

Our gross income is $20,900 above the state median.See, that's what I'm wondering - if we'll even get 3 years because on Form 22C, that little box is filled in for "the applicable commitment period is 5-years," but on our petition, the plan atty has there is for 3-years?

How experienced is your lawyer filing Ch 13 since October 2005? What % of his/her cases right now are Ch 13 cases?

If you don't mind sharing, what does your Means Test state as your monthly disposable income? What does Schedule I and J state as your monthly disposable income?

[jnjw]

Means Test/ Monthly Disposable Income = $184.19

On Schedule I, the Combined Average Monthly Income is $5,383.25. (This is after husband's payroll deductions - I don't have any because I am self-employed. Anyway, I'm assuming it's what you wanted because there isn't a line that says disposable income on Sch. I, just a combined average monthly income)

Schedule J, the Monthly Net Income is $184.25

[lrprn]

Means Test/ Monthly Disposable Income = $184.19. ... Schedule J, the Monthly Net Income is $184.25

This is why your attorney can file a three-year plan. Very little disposable income is showing on both the Means Test and Schedule I minus J.

Just curious - you are very close to the magic number of $100/month disposable income. If you show less than $100/month disposable income, this would tip you into Ch 7 rather than Ch 13. Are you in arrears on your mortgage, cars, or other big ticket assets and that's why you want to file Ch 13? Or was this your lawyer's idea?

[jnjw]

No, we're not in arrears on anything. We were, but we got caught up by borrowing some money from my mother. I'm actually 2 weeks late on a car payment, but it's laying here to go out in the mail tomorrow, so we'll be okay there.

We're doing a 13 because I have assets to protect. I have assets in my name that should not be as of early last year (they were sold and given away last year), but I have to protect them.

[lrprn]

We're doing a 13 because I have assets to protect. I have assets in my name that should not be as of early last year (they were sold and given away last year), but I have to protect them.

I'm confused....you are filing Ch 13 to protect assets that you no longer have?

[jnjw]

Yes, because they are still in my name. One asset, which was a house and piece of property, were sold last year. They were my father's, but came to me when he passed in '05. The new owners have not yet transferred the title to the land and property. I don't know why. The other asset is an antique car that was my father's, I gave/gifted to my brother last year, I signed the title and gave it to him thinking he would transfer it to himself in the state in which he lives, and found out a couple months ago that he has not done so. I don't know why. Plus, I have other assets that were my father's that are now mine and I want those protected as well.

So, yes, I am. I am also protecting myself. If the bk courts were to take those assets that are not mine, but are still in my name, then I am 100% certain I would be sued by those who bought the house and property, and I obviously don't have the money to give back to them.

[EveryDayAdam]

Yes, because they are still in my name. One asset, which was a house and piece of property, were sold last year. They were my father's, but came to me when he passed in '05. The new owners have not yet transferred the title to the land and property. I don't know why. The other asset is an antique car that was my father's, I gave/gifted to my brother last year, I signed the title and gave it to him thinking he would transfer it to himself in the state in which he lives, and found out a couple months ago that he has not done so. I don't know why. Plus, I have other assets that were my father's that are now mine and I want those protected as well.

So, yes, I am. I am also protecting myself. If the bk courts were to take those assets that are not mine, but are still in my name, then I am 100% certain I would be sued by those who bought the house and property, and I obviously don't have the money to give back to them.

I would think that as long as you could provide documentation of the sale of your house, it wouldn't matter if it was still in your name or not...you have evidence that it's no longer yours, regardless of what is on record with the county.

As far as the antique car, do you know how much it is worth? You might be able to reshuffle your exemptions to cover the car.

We're just asking all of these questions because a chapter 7 is much less expensive than a chapter 13...you are paying $184/mo for 36 months, which is $6,624, and you won't be done for 3 years. With a chapter 7, you'll pay your attorney's fees (which are much less in chapter 7 than in a 13) of about $1000...with all the court costs, etc. you'll end up paying $1500...and you'll be done with it in a matter of months... usually about 4-5 months.

[Flamingo]

Yes! I know what you mean! Yesterday, after FINALLY signing the papers and the atty submitting them, I could finally...I don't know....breathe again? We've been dealing with all of this for a very long time now I know you know what I mean when I say I have been stressed to the max!

Been there and know how good you feel to get this over with. It's like a huge burden was lifted off your shoulders. But realize you still have hard work ahead; Chapter 13 is not a walk in the park. Realize that now and batten down the hatches - you will be living on a cash only basis now for the next 3 years; you will have to try to save money on the side for things that will occur and happen when you least expect them - i.e., need new tires, the hot water heater goes, leaking roof, etc., etc. Also there are the car repairs that will need to be done. You will have a major lifestyle change going through the Plan. Learn from it as we did. Make budgeting a game; we saved loose change in our pockets/wallets everyday and put it in a large jar to save for the unexpected. You'd be surprised as what you can do and what you can accomplish while paying off your Plan. The other major thing is do not be late with any payments, including your Plan payments, during your payback period. If you feel you cannot make your Plan payment or are having difficulties paying anything else, contact your attorney immediately, or if you experience a job loss or income increase. Plans can be modified if necessary.

Best of luck to you - you will find lots of help in this forum.

[Bankruptcy Atty]

$$$

The Plan.

A MT problem would require a 5 yr. Plan.

Some jurisditions (ie WDPa) require future mtg pmts in the plan.

I file in 4 jurisdictions. I have never seen a 13 w/o the D's car (ie purchase money contract) not being included in the plan.

[jnjw]

I understand all the questions and from my end, a 7 certainly looks much better than a 13, but my situation is screwy, is the only way I know how to put it.

I sold the house to family. The only documentation I have (long story as to why) is a few very large deposits over a 2-month period to my bank account. That's it. The attorney said when I explained all of this to him is that the house and property would probably be dragged into the bk proceedings because #1, it was less than 2 years ago, and #2, it was to family.

The car I gave to my brother is worth a good bit. So isn't the antique car that is mine that used to be my dad's as well. Plus, I have a truck (a '97) that was my dad's that I paid off about 3 months ago. Another one of my brothers was supposed to pay for it and keep it, but he passed away unexpectedly about 2 months after my dad did. The truck is in excellent shape and there wasn't much left owed on it, so we decided to pay it off, keep it, and hopefully sell it.

As far as neither of our cars being included in the plan, well, that surprised me as well. The only thing I can think is on car #1, it will be paid off in 3 years anyway and it has held it's value. There is only a $6 difference between the payoff amount and the value. On car #2, we still have about 4 years left on that contract and we are really upside down on it (by about $13K); however, the atty said that he is going to try and work with the bank on that one first and then if they won't budge, he will try to "cram" it down. I don't know if that makes a difference or not, though?

[isitreal]

Both of my cars were left out of the 13 plan. Have a year to 18 months left on each. We are current on the payments. One is within range of its value, the other is about 4k upside down. It made sense to keep them out as we could trade or sell them after we have them paid off and not wait 5 years.

[krielly]

Both of my cars were left out of the 13 plan. Have a year to 18 months left on each. We are current on the payments. One is within range of its value, the other is about 4k upside down. It made sense to keep them out as we could trade or sell them after we have them paid off and not wait 5 years.

Just a word of caution......just because you are paying on your vehicles outside of the 13, doesn't mean they aren't "part of" your 13. What I mean to say is, any equity you have in the vehicles is part of your BK Estate. Don't assume you can sell or trade them without permission from the trustee..... You should always check with your attorney.

[isitreal]

Just a word of caution......just because you are paying on your vehicles outside of the 13, doesn't mean they aren't "part of" your 13. What I mean to say is, any equity you have in the vehicles is part of your BK Estate. Don't assume you can sell or trade them without permission from the trustee..... You should always check with your attorney.

Very good point. That should certainly not be overlooked.