Gambling Debts (lengthy)

[Dealer36]

Hi everyone, I have been reading this message board for about a month and have learned a great deal about bankruptcy in addition to reading just about everything I could find online. I have a few questions and comments if you all don't mind me asking.

First off, I am a dealer at a casino and I've never had a spending problem in the manner that most people spend money for personal things...o.k. I should know better than the average person because I work there, right? That's what everyone says but I see people winning every day and somewhere in my mind I think "I can do that" even though I can't. It's messed up. Anyway, great with money matters EXCEPT for when it comes to gambling. I keep thinking of it as a possibility to get more back and in truth It has been one of the biggest struggles of my life as this year I have really messed up. My partner and I were going to GA two years ago and I only thought I had a problem then.

Concerning the bankruptcy, from last October until March of this year I lost about $10,000. That's more money than I have ever lost in one year because I have always kept myself off the bet when I started losing too much. I got a loan from Capital One for $15,000 and took $5,300 from my 401K to consolidate my debts. I paid off all of my unsecured creditors but left a credit line worth $12,000 (now $13,750) with a balance of $500.
Then I went to the casinos to try to get lucky and pay the remainder of the balance off and my partner and I lost $2,000. Here comes the chasing. That led to another $1,000, $2,000, etc...Here I am 7 months later and $18,000 more in debt. I think I have lost my mind somewhere in all of it and as a result
I have caused my partner and I a lot of financial hardship. Please don't remind me how horrible I am. I remind myself of that every single day of my life for letting myself get into this financial mess.

I will say that for so many years of my life I wanted to be "debt free" so I could tell everyone that I was "debt free"..I would say just short of killing myself to pay off my debts with worrying all the time about them. I put myself on a 2 year payment plan to pay off all of this debt but kept myself so brutally short at the end of the month that I felt like I NEEDED to win money at the casino to stay on my projected "debt free" plan. It got me here. Now I am trying my best to take this whole thing as a learning lesson and I cut up my checkbook and my debit card. So now I will work on a cash only system. My gf and I are talking about going back to GA. I cannot let this continue to hurt me anymore.

Anyway, went to a couple of lawyers. The first one was going out of town and really didn't say much other than that if I am going to file I should do it this year because It's going to get more difficult to file. The second one, I talked to a paralegal and she was great. She explained things to me much better and answered all of the questions I had for her. Since most of this debt was caused since late May I am concerned that my creditors will allege fraud against me. I have not taken a loan, cash advance, or anything since August 28. I have a few questions and I'm sorry this post is so long if any of you have read this far....

1. Since my debts occured so quickly and I haven't made that many payments can they come after me for fraud? ( I am really fighting guilty feelings for all that I have done and never one time did I even consider bankruptcy until I decided that I couldn't keep spending $1,000 a week at the casinos)

2. I'm a bit confused about the means test and schedule J. The means test shows about $140 a month discretionary income but looks like schedule J might show a bit more. Does anyone know what they go by when figuring out payment plan? The paralegal told me the trustee probably won't object to my 401K contributions and I will probably get my tax refund, also.

3. I am a month and a half on my mortgage and a month and a half late on my car ($7,500) balance and I have $15,000 equity in my home which doesn't come close to the $25,000 exemption for my state. Will my chapter 13 payment be higher should I continue to pay for my vehicle outside of my plan (assuming I catch up payments)?

4. This is a really slow month in the casino business and I am having a tough month. Should I wait a couple of extra weeks to file If it means that I will decrease my 6-month average by about $120?

Thanks you guys for reading my lengthy post and all help would be greatly appreciated.

[SinkingFast]

Large amounts of debt run up rather quickly are a red flag for the Trustee.

The Court does not care how you got into debt. But in your case, since it was gambling, and you ran up a larger amount rather quickly,........... Be prepared to Document.

Creditors,......... Anybody's guess what they will or will not Object to. The whole situation seems to be getting stricter. Both Creditors and the Court.

I don't gamble, but people that have posted here who did comment that Casino's have tabs or slips or something that would act as a receipt. If you have those, or can get those, that would be great.

To answer #2,........... That's a Court based decision. Evidently, the Trustees in your Court allow for some amount of 401K contributions and typically don't seize income tax refunds. If you Consult with other attnys you'll probably learn for sure if the paralegal told you correctly what to expect.

If you wanna keep your house, you're gonna have to put the arrears into your Plan. For both your car and your house. Unless you can bring them current prior to filing.

There's several ways to look at putting your car payment into the Plan. You'll be paying the Trustee 6, 7, maybe 10% to make your payments for you. If you have a higher interest rate loan, the Trustee could "fix" that to a lower %. If you make your Plan payments, you're sure your car payment is getting made. And when it's paid in full, you'll get a clean title to the car. Several things to consider when deciding to put your car payment into your Plan.

If your income is gonna be lower for a continuous period, that will help reduce your Plan payments. And waiting to file until you need to won't hurt. When your mortgage Lender moves to Foreclose. Your auto loan lender moves to repossess. One of your Creditors moves to sue you. Then you'd have to file to stop those actions. Before that, you can afford to wait.

[aa06a47]

I don't know what you take home pay is at the casino, but if your only debt is 18k, I am not sure if filing bankruptcy is the solution or to stop gambling is the solution.

I wish I had stopped at 18k in gambling debt. Multiply that by about 8 and you have what I filed on. My debt was purly gambling / cash advances. In my opinion, I would wait at least 100 days from my last cash advance to file. Longer if you can. My debt kept building over about a 3 year time span and I kept thinking I would hit it big. Never happened.

There are some pretty good drugs available to help curb your gambling urges. They have helped me. I believe you should try and get some help for the gambling problem. Going into a bankrutpcy and continuing to gamble will not solve your financial problem. Get some help.

[MomIcantFindmy]

went to a couple of lawyers. The first one was going out of town and really didn't say much other than that if I am going to file I should do it this year because It's going to get more difficult to file.

Anyone heard that? I am hoping he was just trying to scare you into retaining him and not looking around further.

[lrprn]

Anyone heard that? I am hoping he was just trying to scare you into retaining him and not looking around further.

There are no anticipated changes in the current bankruptcy law anywhere in sight in Congress. You can relax on that count, MICFM - it won't be any harder to file than it is now for years to come

[Dealer36]

Thank you all for your help. That's why I love this site because we are all here to help and learn from one another.

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

Gambler Here Too !

1. Since my debts occured so quickly and I haven't made that many payments can they come after me for fraud? ( I am really fighting guilty feelings for all that I have done and never one time did I even consider bankruptcy until I decided that I couldn't keep spending $1,000 a week at the casinos)

Sounds just like me, I've been gambling for 4 years. The majority of my debt were through the use of credit cards too. I filed last year (July 2006). Before I filed my biggest advance was a new credit card/transfer of $10,000 (March-April 2005) I think I had only paid 1 minimal payment (even if at that) when I filed. Knowing the risk(s) of objection I chose to file Ch13 (also due to working 2 full time jobs I almost had not choice but to file). Typically creditors don't object when you file for Ch13 - your paying them back! They could still file an objection BUT because your paying them back they usually don't. My lawyer did suggest that I quit one job and go for a 7, but being paranoid because of all the cash advances I had through my credit spree, I didn't want to risk objections.

2. I'm a bit confused about the means test and schedule J. The means test shows about $140 a month discretionary income but looks like schedule J might show a bit more. Does anyone know what they go by when figuring out payment plan? The paralegal told me the trustee probably won't object to my 401K contributions and I will probably get my tax refund, also.

My Means Test showed I had negative disposable income (-$60 odd dollars), while schedules I and J showed I had $800 available. This is the gray area of the "new law," Congress didn't know anybody. So they left it up to the judge to decide, basically the judges comment was, "I don't know what Congress intent was with the Means Test, but since it shows you have X amount of disposable income, I leave you a choice: expect to pay $800 a month for the next 5 years or simply quit one of your jobs and convert to Ch7. Well, you do the math .. be in Ch13 hell for 5 years or just learn to live with a tight budget for a few months and owe nothing!

3. I am a month and a half on my mortgage and a month and a half late on my car ($7,500) balance and I have $15,000 equity in my home which doesn't come close to the $25,000 exemption for my state. Will my chapter 13 payment be higher should I continue to pay for my vehicle outside of my plan (assuming I catch up payments)?

I didn't owe a house, but I did have to buy a new car (just a month before I was to file - my car that I had paid off got flooded! So here I am stuck with an additional expense, the only benefit was it ate into my disposable income, otherwise I would have been paying $1200 a month! I did have to prove at the 341 I was a month or two with my new car payment. I did keep my car out of the plan simply because during and after the bankruptcy they would keep reporting my payments to the credit bureaus - something good had to come out of the BK.

4. This is a really slow month in the casino business and I am having a tough month. Should I wait a couple of extra weeks to file If it means that I will decrease my 6-month average by about $120?

If you can wait to keep as much distance you possibly can between the cash advances and filing they say it certainly helps. Try to make some kind of payments to who you owe, less chance of crying fraud. It is up to the creditors to prove fraud.

Good luck with your Bk ! You can always PM if you have questions.

Best of Luck, Catchmeifyoucan