in ch 13 and having a judgment filed?

[CindyLou]

Doesn't the automatic stay prevent him from being sued during the 13 whether related to the debts actually in the 13 or not??? I thought you can't sue someone in an active 13??????? Don't they have to wait until the 13 is either dismissed or discharged to sue????

[papa0881]

cindy, that is what i am thinking. however i am just going to tell them i filed for ch 13 when the time comes to tell them, there is nothing they can do to me seeing i am in ch 13

[lrprn]

Doesn't the automatic stay prevent him from being sued during the 13 whether related to the debts actually in the 13 or not???

Bk's automatic stay protects only against creditors listed in the case..

I thought you can't sue someone in an active 13??????? Don't they have to wait until the 13 is either dismissed or discharged to sue????

Since the event that caused the deliquent bill happened after filing and is not a part of the Ch 13 case, I believe that this creditor may be able to move the lawsuit into bankruptcy court to pursue it during an active Ch 13 case.

Obviously the only dependable legal advice in this situation is going to come from an actual bankruptcy lawyer. We've all encouraged papa to do just that.

[aa06a47]

cindy, that is what i am thinking. however i am just going to tell them i filed for ch 13 when the time comes to tell them, there is nothing they can do to me seeing i am in ch 13

I wouldn't go as far as to say there is nothing they can do. Since the debt was incurred after the filing of the bankrutpcy, I am not sure what protection you have against that. If it was a lawsuit on an action that happend prior to your filing, you might be able to fall under the automatic stay. If it was for some action that happened afterwards, it is tough to say. Seek the advice of your attorney. I would not even talk to them without first talking to your attorney.

[HHM]

What is this bill for? And when did you incur the bill relative to your BK. You are very cagey on specifics.

[CindyLou]

My understanding is that you cannot no sue someone that is in an active 13 no matter when they incurred the debt. That is why it is so hard to get a car loan while in a 13. The lender knows that if you default the only thing they can do is come get the car and wait until you are no longer in the 13 and hope the statute of limitations does not run out on the deficiency acount. As far as hospital bills, I know the trustee will sometimes ammend the plan to allow the debtor to pay the bills, which it essentially allowing the debtor to "add" the new debt to the 13 even though its paid outside the plan and was incurred after the plan started, but it is paid with money that would have gone to other creditors. I'm not really clear why the original poster isn't being more clear on the type of bill or debt they have inccured so we can't suggest a better course of action. If it is medical then the trustee might be able to help out in the matter suggested above and the need for a jugement would dissappear!! So give us some more info and we can help. But I really do think the auto stay do apply in general. I don't think you can sue for anything while in 13. But I could be dead wrong. I was wrong once before. HAHA.

[woeisme]

You could be in big trouble if this debt is for anything other than a medical emergency or something along that line. My lawyer told me when I filed that under no circumstances could I take on additional debt once the 13 was filed without permission from the trustee BEFORE the debt is incurred. (For example, if our car breaks down, we have to get permission from the trustee to buy a new car.) She said if we got caught taking on debt without permission, our CH 13 would be dismissed. I imagine the only exception would be for medical emergency or something along that line, because she even told us if the car blew up, or major house problem like furnace, etc, went bad, we had to contact her immediately so she could ask the trustee for a hardship or possibly amend the plan, but under no circumstance do anything without approval first. Hope you can work this out with your lawyer, but I think he/she really steered you wrong by telling you that you could include future judgements into your 13 if the debts occured post-filing.

[HHM]

Well, the automatic stay is defined under section 362 of the BK code.

One provision of note for this conversation is (a)(1)

There is a stay against....

The commencement or continuation, including issuance or employment of process, or a judicial, administrative, or other action or proceeding against the debtor that was or could have been commenced commenced before the commencement of the case under this title, or to recover a claim against the debtor that arose before the commencement of the case under this title

There are some other important provisions as well...but my take is this..

If this bill/debt arose after this person filed BK, that creditor CAN SUE the debtor and the automatic stay does not prevent the creditor from doing so, and the creditor can get a judgment. However, because this case is a chapter 13, the creditor would have to lift the Automatic Stay to actually enforce the judgment (i.e. garnish wages, etc). Reason being, a debtor's ongoing wages in a chapter 13 are property of the BK Estate and the automatic stay prevents ANYONE, at ANYTIME from exercising any claim over property of the BK Estate. 362(a)(2), (3), (4).

[JRTLover]

cindy, that is what i am thinking. however i am just going to tell them i filed for ch 13 when the time comes to tell them, there is nothing they can do to me seeing i am in ch 13

If it is simply a regular bill that got left off the original schedules, then I would request an amended plan.

But, If the debt occured AFTER you filed, it is "post-petition debt". The trustee will want to know WHY this debt was incurred, if it was not included on the original petition.

If new debt was incurred without his permission, and in his opinion, "not necessary or legitimately reasonable", then your chapter 13 might get dismissed by him. Or the post-petition creditor might ask the court for a lift of the automatic stay (the judge doesnt like doing this, but will if the new debt is significant and not legitimate)

A creditor CAN get you in court for post-petition debt. He might even get a judgement against you. However, he will likely have to wait 3-5 years to collect any money.

Let a lawyer advise you on all this. It would help a lot to know what the debt was.

[papa0881]

i own a few business's... this debt is from a temp work agency that we were working with and they decided to take the employee away that we hired going against there word, even though they said we could hire him. they billed me a little over 4k for this.

i incur new debt everyday, spend well over 50k a month, im in business, we have to! the trustee could really fly a kit to be honest with you. one day i might spend $5 next 500? who knows, this is business, something they do not understand. i even bought a truck while in ch 13, i posted this earlier.

the reason why i do not want to pay this debt is i feel i shouldnt have to, so i figured i would add it to my ch 13..... its not that i do not have the money, i just figured i would try and do it.

does anyone know if i could add this in someway? my lawyer tol me when i signed up for ch 13 that i would not be able to be sued, taking to court for money etc etc for a period of 5 years that i was in ch 13.... now this comes along and he decides to change his mind, saying that i cannot add anything unless it was prior to my filing.

isnt there somekind of law he is missing here? plus this attorney of mine seems like a complete idiot in the first place, hard to get ahold of (most are) but i mean he rushs to get off the phone, you call him and you get so nervous..... i have 3 other lawyers that i have there cell numbers but this one is a joke. im sorry i chose him thats for sure, but to late now.

[HHM]

Generally, you cannot add after acquired (i.e. after confirmation) debts to your chapter 13. And you CAN BE SUED while in a chapter 13, if the debt was acquired AFTER you filed. The catch for the creditor is, however, that they cannot enforce the judgment.

There is no issue with operating a business while in a chapter 13, actually section 1304 of the BK Code addresses this issue, you are allowed to incur trade debt so long as doing so is a normal part of doing business. But, that debt cannot be put into your chapter 13.

[papa0881]

thats what my lawyer did say today, he said they can not inforce the judgement until your bk 13 term period is over with.... so that leaves me 4.5 years to pay which is a good thing.

[aa06a47]

Guess my question, is why get a judgement against you if you know your going to lose? (Assuming this as you said it gives you 4.5 years to pay). You can explain to the person who wants to sue you that you've filed bankrtupcy and give them the bankruptcy case no. Given that, there is a small possibility they might just write it off? (Crossing fingers really hard!!!) They sure wouldn't want to pay a lawyer to sue a person who is filing bankruptcy...(just don't tell them you filed several months ago)

[aa06a47]

With that "hail marry pass" advice I gave above, I would say I don't believe one should do thinks thinking they won't have to pay things back while in Bankruptcy. We all filed for different and very unique reasons. The people we do business with after filing bankruptcy shouldn't have to fight any of in court for us to stand up to our obligations and responsiblities we took on after filing.

[JRTLover]

i incur new debt everyday, spend well over 50k a month, im in business, we have to! the trustee could really fly a kit to be honest with you. one day i might spend $5 next 500? who knows, this is business, something they do not understand. i even bought a truck while in ch 13, i posted this earlier.

I would think that since the bill from the temp agency is a business-related debt, and not consumer debt, the court would not allow it to be added to the Chapter 13. It is totally unrelated to the Chapter 13. Chapter 11 covers business related bankruptcy.

Also, I wouldn't tell the trustee to go fly a kite. Hahahaha! Maybe behind his back.