Post Petition Mortgage Payments

[klux]

Question for everyone, I just filed on 10/2. My mortgage payments have always been due on the 1st of every month, with a grace period to the 15th. I always use to pay (before I ran into problems) my mortgage payment with our first payroll of the month, we are paid bi-weekly. But my question is, is that still an option, or do they have to have the payment in their hands on the 1st of each month (with no grace period), since it is in the bankruptcy? My first mortgage is with Litton Loan and my second mortgage with Saxon Mortgage. I know that even with the grace period before they'd start calling me on the 2nd. Also, wondering if anyone has had experience with Litton or Saxon.

[lrprn]

Question for everyone, I just filed on 10/2. My mortgage payments have always been due on the 1st of every month, with a grace period to the 15th. I always use to pay (before I ran into problems) my mortgage payment with our first payroll of the month, we are paid bi-weekly. But my question is, is that still an option, or do they have to have the payment in their hands on the 1st of each month (with no grace period), since it is in the bankruptcy? My first mortgage is with Litton Loan and my second mortgage with Saxon Mortgage. I know that even with the grace period before they'd start calling me on the 2nd. Also, wondering if anyone has had experience with Litton or Saxon.

Mortgage companies in Ch 13 can be tricky. There can be no problems at all or there can be big problems depending on how "shady" they want to get to maximize profits off you in your weakened financial condition.

Allow me to explain.... Our mortgage company filed an objection after we filed stating we were in arrears when we filed - we weren't and could prove it. Their lawyer was a no-show at the hearing our lawyer forced to get them to prove their objection. Since they were a no-show, our bk judge threw out their objection

Since February after their objection was denied, our mortgage company has been playing games with our payments. I use online bill pay at our bank to send in the full mortgage payment a full 10-14 days before it's due on the 1st. Our mortgage company holds on to our check and deliberately deposits it into our account one day after the grace period ends 3-4 weeks after our bank delivers the check! Our lawyer is pretty sure they are setting us up for a large pile of late fees that they will charge us for as soon as our Ch 13 ends. We're one step ahead though - we have air-tight independent proof we paid well before the due date every single month since filing and I force them to send me a letter every six months stating that we are up to date on our payments. Should make for an interesting court case when we're finished - our lawyer is chomping at the bit to take them on if they try to say we owe them anything extra after we complete our 13!

I believe that our situation is an unusual one - just wanted you to know that mortgage companies will do whatever they can to make money off you if they think they can.

In your case, I would start paying your full mortgage at least a week ahead of the 1st as soon as you can, and use an independent third party like online bill paying from your bank to prove without a doubt that you sent the payment on time every month.

Also your mortgage company is not obligated to honor the 15-day grace period while you are in Ch 13. If you are paying after the due date, you open the door to your bank charging you late fees. You don't want to emerge from Ch 13 owing several thousand dollars of trumped up extra late fee charges if you can avoid it....and yes, this has happened before. Couple ended up taking their mortgage lender to court and won, thank goodness!

Hopefully your mortgage company (and I don't know anything about either of yours - ours is a different one) will be more ethical and straightforward than ours has been.

[hansky]

Question for everyone, I just filed on 10/2. My mortgage payments have always been due on the 1st of every month, with a grace period to the 15th. I always use to pay (before I ran into problems) my mortgage payment with our first payroll of the month, we are paid bi-weekly. But my question is, is that still an option, or do they have to have the payment in their hands on the 1st of each month (with no grace period), since it is in the bankruptcy? My first mortgage is with Litton Loan and my second mortgage with Saxon Mortgage. I know that even with the grace period before they'd start calling me on the 2nd. Also, wondering if anyone has had experience with Litton or Saxon.

The due date is the 1st. A grace period before they tack on fees is not an extension of the due date. Good financial common sense is to pay the bill by the due date, in or out of bankruptcy.

[aa06a47]

lrprn, My mortgage company does something a little different, they seem to hold on my check right up to the date Before it will be late. It doesn't seem to matter if I mail the check on the 25th, 30th...it always clears the bank on the 12th of the month (consider late if paid on the 15th or after).

I have started paying by phone. As long as I call on the 1st day of the month, (or before), there is no charge. Ironic though, an electronic check takes about 4 days for them to clear it. Go figure.

[wayne-o]

My mortgage is paid through my plan. I dont really understand why more people dont do this. Its always paid...And I just received a court order that my mortgage is current and all defaults are cured, so I think it would be pretty hard for them to tack on lots of fees at this point.

[dscurlock]

Mortgage companies in Ch 13 can be tricky. There can be no problems at all or there can be big problems depending on how "shady" they want to get to maximize profits off you in your weakened financial condition.

Allow me to explain.... Our mortgage company filed an objection after we filed stating we were in arrears when we filed - we weren't and could prove it. Their lawyer was a no-show at the hearing our lawyer forced to get them to prove their objection. Since they were a no-show, our bk judge threw out their objection

Since February after their objection was denied, our mortgage company has been playing games with our payments. I use online bill pay at our bank to send in the full mortgage payment a full 10-14 days before it's due on the 1st. Our mortgage company holds on to our check and deliberately deposits it into our account one day after the grace period ends 3-4 weeks after our bank delivers the check! Our lawyer is pretty sure they are setting us up for a large pile of late fees that they will charge us for as soon as our Ch 13 ends. We're one step ahead though - we have air-tight independent proof we paid well before the due date every single month since filing and I force them to send me a letter every six months stating that we are up to date on our payments. Should make for an interesting court case when we're finished - our lawyer is chomping at the bit to take them on if they try to say we owe them anything extra after we complete our 13!

I believe that our situation is an unusual one - just wanted you to know that mortgage companies will do whatever they can to make money off you if they think they can.

In your case, I would start paying your full mortgage at least a week ahead of the 1st as soon as you can, and use an independent third party like online bill paying from your bank to prove without a doubt that you sent the payment on time every month.

Also your mortgage company is not obligated to honor the 15-day grace period while you are in Ch 13. If you are paying after the due date, you open the door to your bank charging you late fees. You don't want to emerge from Ch 13 owing several thousand dollars of trumped up extra late fee charges if you can avoid it....and yes, this has happened before. Couple ended up taking their mortgage lender to court and won, thank goodness!

Hopefully your mortgage company (and I don't know anything about either of yours - ours is a different one) will be more ethical and straightforward than ours has been.

my mortg company is starting to pull that crap, they know we have been late in the past, my last payment was sent ontime, and my online payment says they have gotten it before the due date, but they clearly did not deposit it until after the due date, I just got a letter the other day saying that we were late and we will be assessed late fees...crooks...

[Granny]

We're one step ahead though - we have air-tight independent proof we paid well before the due date every single month since filing

In your case, I would start paying your full mortgage at least a week ahead of the 1st as soon as you can, and use an independent third party like online bill paying from your bank to prove without a doubt that you sent the payment on time every month.

For What It's Worth:

Due to the timing of our bi-weekly paychecks, I have not yet been able to send my mortgage payments early and after reading lrprn's previous posts about her mortgage companies tricks, I have sent all my mortgage payments by USPS Priority mail, which costs me 4.60 each month. I have a printed document of when I purchased the postage. I then go back to the USPS website after a few days and print the shipping history report that shows when the payment was delivered to the mortgage company.

The 4.60 is a small price to pay for proof of delivery.

[lrprn]

My mortgage is paid through my plan. I dont really understand why more people dont do this. Its always paid...And I just received a court order that my mortgage is current and all defaults are cured, so I think it would be pretty hard for them to tack on lots of fees at this point.

The reason most of us 13ers make our mortgage payments ourselves is so we don't have to pay the trustee his/her 7-11% administrative fee which will take considerably more out of your pocket when you add on the house payments total for 3-5 years. However, if this approach is working for you, that's great, wayne-o. Don't ever want to be late with your mortgage payment in Ch 13!

[wayne-o]

Im not sure how other trustees do it. But my trustee has not charged his administrative fee for my mortgage or my car payments. Only the unsecureds.

[klux]

LRPRN - "Allow me to explain.... Our mortgage company filed an objection after we filed stating we were in arrears when we filed - we weren't and could prove it. Their lawyer was a no-show at the hearing our lawyer forced to get them to prove their objection. Since they were a no-show, our bk judge threw out their objection"

I am in arrears, that's part of the reason I am filing chapter 13, I thought a lot of people were in arrears trying to avoid foreclosure with a chapter 13 (mine hasn't went that far). Are you saying that they filed an objection to confirmation because they stated you had arrears after filing or before filing? Just curious.

Just to confirm, you believe if my payment is Due on November 1st, that If I paid it on November 8th, through their online payment or through western union, that I could be opening myself up for problems? I tried asking my attorney but she said that I should just be sure to pay my mortgage payment when it comes due in November, whenever that might be. She didn't acknowledge anything about paying it in the grace period for late fees. One more question, Do you think I could call the mortgage company directly and ask them, if I document who I spoke to and when? Things just are a little tight because we moved up the signing by two weeks, and the attorney originally told us we wouldn't be making our October car paymeny outside of the plan, but at signing she said that we should, It actually is a good thing because in the plan she has requested the car payment be paid directly each month on the due date, she said it'd actually end up being paid 2 weeks early each month because of when the trustee sends the checks, I just hope GMAC will continue to report through the chapter 13 on time payments

Thank you ahead of time for your advice.

[lrprn]

I am in arrears, that's part of the reason I am filing chapter 13, I thought a lot of people were in arrears trying to avoid foreclosure with a chapter 13 (mine hasn't went that far). Are you saying that they filed an objection to confirmation because they stated you had arrears after filing or before filing? Just curious.

We weren't in arrears when we filed and our forms reflected that. However, our mortgage lender said we were one month in arrears when we filed. Best interpretation of why they objected is they were using that as a lever to get an extra payment out of us. Worst case is they might have been intending to use it as a reason to lift our stay and try to foreclose on our house. We'll never know since our lawyer moved quickly and aggressively to stop their shenanigans.

Just to confirm, you believe if my payment is Due on November 1st, that If I paid it on November 8th, through their online payment or through western union, that I could be opening myself up for problems?

I don't have a crystal ball - hopefully your lender will be less aggressive than ours has been and they will honor the grace period.

However, if your loan papers say your payment is due on the 1st, any payment that reaches your lender after the 1st can be considered to be a late payment if the lender chooses to go that route.

Unless your lawyer has dealt with this mortgage company before, she may not be able to predict what your lender is going to do.

The only way to absolutely guarantee that your mortgage company has no grounds whatsoever to say you are paying late is to pay them so they receive the payment before the 1st every month. This may be overly cautious, but we chose not to risk it given how aggressively our mortgage lender reacted when we filed. Only you and your lawyer can decide what's best for you to do in your case.

[klux]

thanks for the advice

[klux]

Update....For anyone who might be pondering the same thoughts. I called my first mortgage (Litton) and they said everything will be the same as before, except for the fact that I no longer can access my account on line. They said that I have until the 15th to make the payment without any late fees and that I didn't have to worry about a lift in the automatic stay unless you get 30 days past due. They said payments take 24-48 hours to post at the most. Personal checks accepted. Then I called my second mortgage (Saxon) they were less than helpful. They said that I didn't have to worry about a lift in the automatic stay unless you get 30 days past due. They also said I can pay it anyway I use to, including online. They said it is Due Nov. 1st, no grace period in bankruptcy but that late fees "shouldn't" incur until after the 15th, but attorney fees might/might not, depends on what bankruptcy papers state. I said what papers, she said your plan, I said it's not specified, she said then you should be ok, most likely but you never know. Guess I won't gamble with that one.

[chpxiii]

klux, don't gamble with either one of them. If you can manage, get your mortgage payments before due date. Mortage lenders can suck and unless you have anything in writing, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

Good luck!

[klux]

I'm Worried Now, I Can't Come Up With The Money To Get 2 Payments In One Month, Maybe Over A Few Months I Can. I Can't Pay Until 11/8, And Actual Due Date Is 11/1. I Guess I'll Have To See How This Plays Out, Hopefully They'd Give Me The Right To Change Things Before My Case Would Be Dismissed.