What's a reasonable clothing and food expense

[arlington]

I am readjusting my schedule forms because my attorney didn't think I listed enough. I don't want list anything to bring too much attention to my case. What is a reasonable expense for clothing and food for a family of 5 on a monthly basis? Before I really didn't have a budget for clothing and for groceries I only spent $300 a month and that included toiletries...personal hygiene and laundry stuff. My attorney was surprised that I could live off of that amount but apparently she didn't think it was enough.

[Granny]

I don't think it's enough either. Certainly not when you are looking ahead 5 years, because that's the budget you will have to live with.

Here's a good starting point, the IRS standards

http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/20071015/bci_data/national_expense_standards.htm

Find your income level and household size and scan down the column.

Remember what was posted earlier, now is not the time to be frugal.

[arkienurse]

I am readjusting my schedule forms because my attorney didn't think I listed enough. I don't want list anything to bring too much attention to my case. What is a reasonable expense for clothing and food for a family of 5 on a monthly basis? Before I really didn't have a budget for clothing and for groceries I only spent $300 a month and that included toiletries...personal hygiene and laundry stuff. My attorney was surprised that I could live off of that amount but apparently she didn't think it was enough.

I agree, you need to budget more. Please listen to your lawyer Even if you don't use it everytime, you will have unexpected overages in other areas at times. And remember, all your extra money is going into the 13, you theoretically have NOTHING left over for the unexpected.

I dug out my budget from when we filed. (Arkansas, 3 years ago). We were a family of 6 at the time. 2 teens, a baby, and a 10 yr old, dh and myself.
Food- my lawyer put down 600 dollars. This included any eating out also.
Clothing- lawyer put down 300 dollars. I have never in my life spend 300 in a month on clothing, unless maybe at back to school time.
Medical not covered by insurance- 100 dollars
Transportation ( includes gas, repairs,tags)- 260 dollars
Personal Hygeine ( toiletries, hair cuts, shampoo, etc) 120 a month.

These are form 3 years ago, so I would think that a family of 5 today should have at least this same amount budgeted, especially with the way prices have been shooting up. Perhaps your numbers should be even higher. Arkansas is a rural type state for the most part. I am sure expenses are WAY higher in states that are more populated.

I am intrigued by 300 month for groceries for 5. Either you have young kids that don't eat much, or you do a super job of hunting bargains. Either way, please up your amounts to what the lawyer says the trustee will allow. You will be happy you did in the long run, especially when your washer/car/whatever goes out unexpectedly

[arlington]

I agree, you need to budget more. Please listen to your lawyer Even if you don't use it everytime, you will have unexpected overages in other areas at times. And remember, all your extra money is going into the 13, you theoretically have NOTHING left over for the unexpected.

I dug out my budget from when we filed. (Arkansas, 3 years ago). We were a family of 6 at the time. 2 teens, a baby, and a 10 yr old, dh and myself.
Food- my lawyer put down 600 dollars. This included any eating out also.
Clothing- lawyer put down 300 dollars. I have never in my life spend 300 in a month on clothing, unless maybe at back to school time.
Medical not covered by insurance- 100 dollars
Transportation ( includes gas, repairs,tags)- 260 dollars
Personal Hygeine ( toiletries, hair cuts, shampoo, etc) 120 a month.

These are form 3 years ago, so I would think that a family of 5 today should have at least this same amount budgeted, especially with the way prices have been shooting up. Perhaps your numbers should be even higher. Arkansas is a rural type state for the most part. I am sure expenses are WAY higher in states that are more populated.

I am intrigued by 300 month for groceries for 5. Either you have young kids that don't eat much, or you do a super job of hunting bargains. Either way, please up your amounts to what the lawyer says the trustee will allow. You will be happy you did in the long run, especially when your washer/car/whatever goes out unexpectedly

Thanks Granny and Arkienurse. Granny what you mentioned earlier kinda sunk in. You mentioned that now isn't the time to be frugal and I see what you are saying. I talked to my husband about this and he gets it too. I have been spending $150 every two weeks on groceries for the past 5 years at least. Sometimes I go over a bit like when my husband needs razors or when all at once we need paper products, laudry and razors. But when that happens I still try to stay under $175. It seems though that if I get more realistic and include everything that I may end up in the negative or with only about $100 as a disposable income. What's the trustee gonna say about that? I thank you guys so much for responding to my posts because I would have never known.

[Granny]

It seems though that if I get more realistic and include everything that I may end up in the negative or with only about $100 as a disposable income. What's the trustee gonna say about that? I thank you guys so much for responding to my posts because I would have never known.

If your lucky you will have to file a Ch 7, unless of course, you are trying to save some assets, as we were. Then your goal is to have your expenses so that your disposable income equals exactly what you need to pay the secured, the attorney and the trustee.

Remember too, food includes the trips to the corner store for extra milk or bread or an occasional fast food meal or snacks for the kids because you're out past dinner time. We have to provide a box of crackers for the kids snacks at school. Vending machine purchases also count as food as well as buying a cup of coffee. I bet you are spending more than you realize. I bet you are only counting what you spend at the market every 2 weeks. For my budget, I included all my non-food items too, because I buy them when the are on sale and stock up. I may not buy them but once every three months, so if I looked at my receipts for just the past month, there wouldn't be any paper products on the receipt, but I know I spend money for them eventually. Same story with cleaning items, I don't buy them on every trip. Some I buy at Home Depot, but they belong in the grocery/household budget.

[arlington]

If your lucky you will have to file a Ch 7, unless of course, you are trying to save some assets, as we were. Then your goal is to have your expenses so that your disposable income equals exactly what you need to pay the secured, the attorney and the trustee.

Remember too, food includes the trips to the corner store for extra milk or bread or an occasional fast food meal or snacks for the kids because you're out past dinner time. We have to provide a box of crackers for the kids snacks at school. Vending machine purchases also count as food as well as buying a cup of coffee. I bet you are spending more than you realize. I bet you are only counting what you spend at the market every 2 weeks. For my budget, I included all my non-food items too, because I buy them when the are on sale and stock up. I may not buy them but once every three months, so if I looked at my receipts for just the past month, there wouldn't be any paper products on the receipt, but I know I spend money for them eventually. Same story with cleaning items, I don't buy them on every trip. Some I buy at Home Depot, but they belong in the grocery/household budget.

Thanks Granny. I am re-vamping as we speak. Gonna go over this as soon as I get back from this wedding. My 3 year old is the ring-bearer...should have included the suit I had to buy!!! But anyway...I will let you all know what is approved. We meet with our attorney on Tuesday to file.

[arkienurse]

Thanks Granny. I am re-vamping as we speak. Gonna go over this as soon as I get back from this wedding. My 3 year old is the ring-bearer...should have included the suit I had to buy!!! But anyway...I will let you all know what is approved. We meet with our attorney on Tuesday to file.

Well, just average that suit into clothing expences . And don't forget about all daycare expenses( If you do daycare). I had to pay a 50$ fee once a year for registration, on top of the normal cost, and diapers, and snacks, and,.... you get it.

[arlington]

Ok Granny and Arkienurse. I just revised my schedule and I am in the negative. The crazy thing is that most of my expenses I didn't bother upping because it is what it is...daycare...afterschool.auto loan...parking...gas (2 cars)..utilities...mortagage (plan to keep the house...child support. The categories that I revised: I put my groceries at $600 (that would be nice) and a clothing allowance at $100.00 (3 children and adults) and personal grooming at $144 (that includes grooming for 2 boys, my husband my daughter (7) and myself). That's not a necessity but if its acceptible by the IRS and the Trusteee and whoever else then I'm putting it in. Those are the only categories (clothing, food and personal grooming) that I "adjusted". I am left with a disposable budget of $169.00. I am including my credit cards, loans (including student) and car loan into the plan estimating to be around $71,000. I don't think the trustee is going to take this plan now that I look at it. If I have to file a 7 and give up the house then I probably won't file.

[arkienurse]

Ok Granny and Arkienurse. I just revised my schedule and I am in the negative. The crazy thing is that most of my expenses I didn't bother upping because it is what it is...daycare...afterschool.auto loan...parking...gas (2 cars)..utilities...mortagage (plan to keep the house...child support. The categories that I revised: I put my groceries at $600 (that would be nice) and a clothing allowance at $100.00 (3 children and adults) and personal grooming at $144 (that includes grooming for 2 boys, my husband my daughter (7) and myself). That's not a necessity but if its acceptible by the IRS and the Trusteee and whoever else then I'm putting it in. Those are the only categories (clothing, food and personal grooming) that I "adjusted". I am left with a disposable budget of $169.00. I am including my credit cards, loans (including student) and car loan into the plan estimating to be around $71,000. I don't think the trustee is going to take this plan now that I look at it. If I have to file a 7 and give up the house then I probably won't file.

Those numbers sound reasonable. Are you behind on your mortgage? If you are current, you can keep your house in a 7. If you are behind, then a 13 is the way to keep it. Talk to your lawyer about these revised numbers. She, better than us, can tell you if the trustee will go for your plan. And try not to worry this weekend

[Granny]

Ok Granny and Arkienurse. I just revised my schedule and I am in the negative. The crazy thing is that most of my expenses I didn't bother upping because it is what it is...daycare...afterschool.auto loan...parking...gas (2 cars)..utilities...mortagage (plan to keep the house...child support. The categories that I revised: I put my groceries at $600 (that would be nice) and a clothing allowance at $100.00 (3 children and adults) and personal grooming at $144 (that includes grooming for 2 boys, my husband my daughter (7) and myself). That's not a necessity but if its acceptible by the IRS and the Trusteee and whoever else then I'm putting it in. Those are the only categories (clothing, food and personal grooming) that I "adjusted". I am left with a disposable budget of $169.00. I am including my credit cards, loans (including student) and car loan into the plan estimating to be around $71,000. I don't think the trustee is going to take this plan now that I look at it. If I have to file a 7 and give up the house then I probably won't file.

When I filed, I was in the negative by a lot, but I too filed to save my house. The attorney adjusted the numbers to make it work so I could file the Ch 13. One of the first places they cut was the food and clothing budget. That's exactly why we are telling you not to scrimp there. If they need to cut to make a 13 work for you, then I bet they find a way. Your goal is to give them areas to cut by including everything you could possibly spend money on, such as hair care for your 7 year old. If you don't include it, they won't offer it because you forgot it. My personal opinion is to have something on every line, because I would bet the your trustee has his favorite to target, and if you didn't have something on his favorite line, for example, entertainment, he'll go after some other variable expense. Did you include anything for entertainment. Just because your haven't been spending on it in the past, doesn't mean you shouldn't spend on it in the future. We cut our satellite channels and added Blockbuster's deal for 19.99.

But Arkienurse is right. Don't forget the beginning of the semester fees for registration and supplies. This increases your day care costs above your monthly payments.

[doglover]

We have a family of 4 and our food expense is $ 816.00. I know we don't spend that much on food alone so I assume the attney has EVERYTHING included in that.

[arlington]

Those numbers sound reasonable. Are you behind on your mortgage? If you are current, you can keep your house in a 7. If you are behind, then a 13 is the way to keep it. Talk to your lawyer about these revised numbers. She, better than us, can tell you if the trustee will go for your plan. And try not to worry this weekend

Thanks Arkienurse. We are not behind on the mortage and plan to keep the house.

[JollyGG]

Thanks Arkienurse. We are not behind on the mortage and plan to keep the house.

What state do you live in and how much equity do you have.

It is very likely that you can keep your house and still do a chapter 7.

[arlington]

What state do you live in and how much equity do you have.

It is very likely that you can keep your house and still do a chapter 7.

JollyGG...About $20,000 and I live in Georgia.

[JollyGG]

Well, Georgia's exemptions are definately not generous. It looks like you get 5,000 homestead exemption and a 400 wildcard. http://www.bankruptcyinformation.com/GA_exemp.htm It does look like you would have more equity that you could cover.
Ask your lawyer how trustee's in your area normally handle that situation in a chapter 7. It could be that you can work out some sort of payment to the trustee to save the house. If that could be worked out is there family or anyone you could barrow the money to pay the trustee with and keep the house? I'm just guessing, but you could probably work something out where you pay the trustee 10k to distribute to creditors.
Would a chapter 7 paying around $250 a month be something you could manage. I say that because in a chapter 13 creditors must get at least as much as they would in a chapter 7. Therefore if you have 15,000 in unprotected equity 15,000/60 = 250.

Hopefully, more experienced members will chime in here with some other options.