Expenses list - any input?

[Mrs. H]

Here is my new work-up of expenses for submission to the lawyer:

$4800 - take home pay monthly

$2800 - 1st & 2nd mortgages including taxes and homeowner's insurance
$225 - PSEG gas & electric
$250 - car payment
$100 - car insurance
$100 - cable & internet (BUT- did not list any entertainment)
$150 - phone & cells
$75 - water bill
$600 - food includes home supplies, personal care, pets, bank fees, postage
$150 - car's gas, maintenance, EZ Pass, registrations
$100 - prescriptions, doctor co-pays
$50 - home maintenance
$25 - clothes, dry cleaning
$175 - disposable income for monthly Ch.13 payment to trustee

I did everything that I could to figure out something somewhat fair for disposable income. I feel that our flexibility only goes as far as up to about $200 to a trustee payment. I had to include our one cat's diabetes bill in with clothes, home maintenance and food. Otherwise, everything else is as fair and/or low as possible.

Please advise if anything stands out.

Thank you -
Mrs. H.

[BKTango]

Are you planning on keeping your home? More than 50% of your income goes to a mortgage! There's no way other than bluntly to put it.....that's way too much of your income going to your mortgage. I don't see how $50 a month will cover the maintenance of a $2800 a month home.

Honestly what will you do, or have thought about if your home owners insurance increases drastically, the property taxes....the interest on the home loan itself if it's adjustable? Do you really want to get a clean start but still be burdened with something that is taking up HALF of your income? Is it worth it? If it is, then God bless you because that's going to be rough. Like I said there is no other way to put it but to be blunt about it.

the car's maintenance, gas, registration....seems rather low.
home maintenance....this seems way low for the amount of home you have.

Don't forget to include your monthly over the counter meds.

[HenriettaHen]

I did everything that I could to figure out something somewhat fair for disposable income

I told you that you were a saint .

Honey, who are you trying to be fair to? The trustee?

You do not have any disposable income. That's the truth! But you've got to do a little delving into where you're nickeling and diming away your hard-earned cash.

Home care is a big subject, I bet you do more than you think - same with your everyday expenses. Do you use water filters? Vac bags? Dehumidifier? Appliance repair? AC? Floor wax? Mops? Repair a window lately? Electrician, plumber? Paint? Housewashing? Buy a ladder to clean your gutters? Weather-stripping? Hot water heater repair? Outdoor floodlights? Insect control? Chimney cleaning? Flashing repaired? Snow removal? Trash collection? Pool care?

You get the picture.

Your mission (should you choose to accept it ) is not to figure out what is a fair payment - your mission is to list every single last expense so that you will have a budget plan you can live within.

God only knows where they came up with the figure of $166.00 as the threshold for "extra money". It's a mean, lean line.

So make sure you are really REALLY counting everything. Just find the receipts and include these things in your calculations, because the numbers don't lie on your means test.

edit: and I think we are talking about reasonable ongoing (in the future) expenses here - ongoing into the future. Part of your petition deals with the past. Your plan deals with the future.

[lrprn]

Here is my new work-up of expenses for submission to the lawyer: ... Please advise if anything stands out.

I can see several things you are missing, Mrs. H. Take a look at this list of typical living expenses - it's pretty comprehensive - http://www.ca-bankruptcy-attorneys.c...alculator.html

HHen is right. This is going to form the skeleton of your bankruptcy. No one is going to give you a blue ribbon for cutting your costs to the bone. Also Ch 13 gives you NO EXTRA MONEY to handle emergencies after you file. The closer you cut this now, the more likely you will come up against the kinds of things that happen in five years of normal living and not be able to weather them.

Be realistic about your expenses. Discuss them with your lawyer to ensure you aren't asking for more than your trustee will tolerate....but also make sure you aren't cutting yourself too thin as well.

[SinkingFast]

We didn't get to claim it, but,............ I figured we spend about $50/month on Home Maintenance and we rent.

To me, Home Maintenance is any thing you purchase for the home. New can opener or coffee maker, bath linens, bed linens, curtains/drapes/blinds, light bulbs, etc.

Since you actually do own a house, I'd figure way more than $50/month.

We replaced the roof on our house 11 years ago. Regular asphalt shingles. $7K. I can't imagine what it would be today. Last heat pump we bought cost over $2K. That doesn't even count various other expenses over the years. New water heater. New blower motor for the furnace. New sump pump.

You've got to budget every month for those bigger expenses when they do come.

Do you need to file Ch 13 to make up arrears??

[Mrs. H]

Well -

firstly, both mortgages are fixed. That's the good news.

As for giving up the house - I have both my husband and the lawyer firmly against me on this one. Their reasoning is that our area is in demand and that the equity will go through the roof in a few years. Marlton is a really good area of New Jersey apparently. Love the house, but I can see that it's a sucking up most of the money. I can't budge anyone on this one. Hope they're right.

Now, in addition to all this - just tonight we got news from the lawyer that we are, indeed, per his calculations UNDER the Means Test. Good. The payment would be about $190 per month for the trustee. O.K. That's what I thought, but...

That is based on KEEPING the SUV, which I did not include above. Figuring that in at $262 a month plus an extra $63 for insurance, basically, that leaves us with $500 a month for food, gas, meds and of course, the cats. Yes, we are using the 3 deductions here with Ma - but not with her income. Good. But still impossible, I say.

The fix? Husband can up his dependents from 10 to 15 at work. There's an extra $200 a month in doing that. That would give us $700 a month. Sure, but my question is, what happens at tax time?

Also, if they re-instate overtime at work - a big IF - it's OK for us to keep the money. If there is a part-time job thrown in that would need to be reported.

So, how do I make $500 work for food, gas, meds and cats (one with diabetes) for a whole month?

That is my new challenge if I choose to accept it. It sounds extremely unrealistic to me.

Yes, I'm going to demand to lose that SUV. $925 a month - that I can pull off. Maybe even $700. But, $500 - no.

Do we really want to take a tax risk or plan on overtime that may never be there? Well, I certainly am not looking to be in any more trouble.

That's the story as of right now...

Blah, blah, blah. Really sick of this whole thing.

Mrs. H.

Also - hi HH. I did see you up there. No, I'm still not a saint. I looked at B22C line 40 as you suggested. I don't think that any of those things apply to Ma. She is neither elderly, chronically ill nor is she disabled. 57 is not elderly, I don't think. Too bad for this one circumstance!

[HenriettaHen]

it's a sucking up most of the money. I can't budge anyone on this one.

YET. The numbers. THE NUMBERS ..... Business...... businesslike........

So, how do I make $500 work for food, gas, meds and cats (one with diabetes) for a whole month?

You can't, obviously! ( don't worry, were you ever taught this stuff? I wasn't. )

I don't think that any of those things apply to Ma. She is neither elderly, chronically ill nor is she disabled. 57 is not elderly, I don't think.

40 Continued contributions to the care of household or family members. Enter the actual monthly expenses that you will continue to pay for the reasonable and necessary care and support of an elderly, chronically ill, or disabled member of your household or member of your immediate family who is unable to pay for such expenses. Do not include payments listed in Line 34.

Time to get on the nest.

OM

OOoooM

OOOOOoooooommmMMMMMmmmmm.......

[Granny]

The fix? Husband can up his dependents from 10 to 15 at work. There's an extra $200 a month in doing that. That would give us $700 a month. Sure, but my question is, what happens at tax time?

Do we really want to take a tax risk or plan on overtime that may never be there? Well, I certainly am not looking to be in any more trouble.

What ever you do, don't cut yourself short on the taxes. It not a solution, it will only add to your problems. The IRS is under the same automatic stay as everyone else and if you owe taxes while you are in a Ch 13, they will sleep like a baby and then strike like a snake when you are finally discharged, with added on penalties and interest.

Like always, I'm going to add my 2 cents in here too. Why is mom not contributing? If my grown daughters live in my house, we believe they should contribute to the household. What is the difference between my capable adult daughters and your capable adult (non-disabled) mother? For years I enabled my daughter because I didn't want to rock the boat, and it only perpetuated her problems. You are enabling your mom to sponge off of you, just as I did my daughter.

[CindyLou]

Hi Mrs. H,
That is SUCH a very tight budget with or without the BK! One little thing like new tires for the car or a filling for a tooth might put you over the edge. Wow...you might want to revisit the house thing with your attorney.....the housing market may be on the upswing, but will you be able to sustain long enough to get to that point? I am not trying to be negative, instead trying to be realistic..because for everything you listed above there seems to be something else that will come up. I hope for you all the best, but that is a very very very tight budget that seems will stretch you to the max and stress you more than you deserve to be stressed. I hope that you can talk some sense into them about the house! We are here to listen!
Cindy

[Mrs. H]

Hi everyone -

Granny - agreed. How can Ma see all this and not want to give up any money? Sad. I can demand it from her, of course. That is an option. It creates more problems here at home, but it could be done.

Otherwise -

I'm going to sign my husband up on this board. No, for real. He needs someone to give him a clue. Perhaps someone here can help him out. (Let loose on him, people. Tear him a new one! Sorry, I love him, but I think that I may end up on the news soon.)

I am dealing with too many opposing forces here. I'm being told that I'm wrong constantly. I am not getting anywhere at all.

So, as I write this - I ask husband here what he wants his screen name to be. He says - "How about Dumba**" At least he has that part right.

Let's make him "Mr. H."

I'll sign him up and the next post you will see will actually be from him. You can tell the difference between us because, for a computer genius - he can't spell. Gee, that was low. See, NOT a saint. Just bitter right now! No, he is a too nice guy, but he DOES need some help with all this.

And - I am going to cook dinner and let him have at it.

Thank you everyone here again,
Mrs. H.

[HenriettaHen]

When things get harsh in a house, it is good to cook an organic whole chicken for healing.

(eeek! did i just say that? ;^)

[Mrs. H]

Hh-

I am sorry that I didn't acknowledge your Ommms. I think that means that I should meditate. Good idea. Ommm. Organic chicken, huh? Yes, perhaps I will learn how to cook that since my Homestyle Bakes thread didn't go over so well. Apparently I am trying to inadvertently kill my family. Perhaps feed them the box food more, then? No...well, maaaaybeeee. Oh, alright - no.

I just looked at my husband's first post. Interesting. Especially since I already gave him a few of those answers. My only input was hearing while in the kitchen - "How do you spell..." So I would tell him. At least he didn't ask how you spell "shrew" - or worse. LOL. (I really just did LOL! Husband said "What's funny?" I said "ME. I'M funny.")

This night has been interesting for sure.

I'm going to go over to the non-bankruptcy related area of the forum to talk about tonight's fun and the mole hole.

Yes, the fun never ends. Everyday's a picnic in the H house.

Already I can see why everyone here is urging us to not cut ourselves short.

See you at the Mole Hole thread (if you want),
Mrs. H.