Chapter 13, but no asset case?

[twuoo]

I was wondering if I could be forced into a chapter 13 because of being slightly over the median even though I have no assets?

Thanks!

[Minnymouth]

You don't have to own assets to be put into a chapter 13....... you just have to have substantial monies left over after paying your basic bills for the Trustee to take the rest towards what you owe your creditors......

Ex: If you have $100.00 left over after paying all your bills and necessities to live, the trustee won't bother it.... BUT IF YOU HAD $1,000.00.... the Trustee would say "oh, you can SPARE $800-$900 of that money to pay your creditors with........

One things for sure, the Trustee is not going to let you keep the extra money in a Chapter 13.......

[freshstart06]

twuoo, my family is slightly over the median but we are negative after we pay our expenses, basically because after taxes and other payroll deductions we just don't have enough money after expenses. If the trustee finds extra money the he is a good one. I refuse to convert to chapter 13, we have no assets and heck no income after expenses. I would either fight for my chapter 7 or just let it get dismissed and see what I can do on my own. Unless I had a house to save or huge amount of assets I don't see the point for my family going into chapter 13.

[lrprn]

I was wondering if I could be forced into a chapter 13 because of being slightly over the median even though I have no assets?

It's how much disposable income you have showing on the Means Test that matters, not whether you have assets or not.

If your Means Test shows less than $100/month disposable income, then you can still file Ch 7. If it's between $100-160/month, then it's questionable whether you can file Ch 7, and the trustee looks more closely at your income and expenses to see if they are reasonable. If you show more than $160/month of disposable income on the Means Test, then it's Ch 13 for you. These figures are being liberalized somewhat in the court, but not by much.

You can thank your congressional representatives for this neat little trick that reduces the reality of peoples' lives into a "same fit for everyone" equation based on IRS averages, not their real expenses.

[SinkingFast]

You can thank your congressional representatives for this neat little trick that reduces the reality of peoples' lives into a "same fit for everyone" equation based on IRS averages, not their real expenses.

That is sooooooo true, Lrprn.

A family of 4,...........

Mom, Dad, and 2 wee tots have one set of expenses. Diapers, formula, baby food, small little clothes that cost small little prices.

Mom, Dad, and 2 school aged kids have a different set of expenses. School supplies, activities fees, bigger clothes with bigger price tags.

Mom, Dad, and 2 tweens. Not yet full fledged teenagers. School supplies, movies, make-up, day trips to amusement parks, possibly adult sized clothing at adult sized prices.

Mom, Dad, and driving teens. AUTO INSURANCE PREMIUMS sky rocket.

Mom, Dad, and Graduates. College Tuition.

Expenses. Yeah right!! One size does fit all!! NOT!!

[Granny]

You can thank your congressional representatives for this neat little trick that reduces the reality of peoples' lives into a "same fit for everyone" equation based on IRS averages, not their real expenses.

Actually, the figures are from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

[lrprn]

Actually, the figures are from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

Granny, you made me wonder where the required Means Test figures actually do come from. According to the US Trustee Program website, "The original source for the State Median Family Income is the Census Bureau. The original source for the National and Local Standards is the IRS." http://www.usdoj.gov/ust/eo/bapcpa/meanstesting.htm

Turns out we are both right

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

Schedules I and J

It's how much disposable income you have showing on the Means Test that matters, not whether you have assets or not.

If your Means Test shows less than $100/month disposable income, then you can still file Ch 7. If it's between $100-160/month, then it's questionable whether you can file Ch 7, and the trustee looks more closely at your income and expenses to see if they are reasonable. If you show more than $160/month of disposable income on the Means Test, then it's Ch 13 for you. These figures are being liberalized somewhat in the court, but not by much.

You can thank your congressional representatives for this neat little trick that reduces the reality of peoples' lives into a "same fit for everyone" equation based on IRS averages, not their real expenses.

I had a NEGATIVE amount (-$60 odd plus dollars) from the Means Test, and my income was double the median for my state (Virginia) for a single person (only because I had 2 full time jobs). BUT my schedules "I and J" showed I had $800 disposable income. I could have filed for Ch7, but just to be "safe," I filed for Ch13 originally cuz I had heavy cash advances on my credit cards - no assets (well, I had just purchased a new car a month before I filed). Don't forget, even though the Means Test might prove you are in the negative, the real schedules (I and J) could prove different.

Just my 2 cents, CMIYC

[lrprn]

Don't forget, even though the Means Test might prove you are in the negative, the real schedules (I and J) could prove different.

It's a good two cents, CMIYC. Currently whether the first part of the Means Test or Schedule I&J in the second part of the Means Test should be used to show disposable income is being fought through the courts in almost every district. Both Dovette's case and our Ch 13 case got caught up in this argument and our trustees filed objections to force our judges to make a ruling. Right now the decisions about this are all over the board. Just one more huge mess to place squarely at the feet of the new "consumer protection" bk law. Talk about an oxymoron!