Trying to make decisions(when to file, stop paying cc's, etc)

[momofmany]

I finally reached the breaking point and realized we can't make all of our monthly payments.

We are in Minnesota(in case that makes any difference).

We've been charging the charge cards just to pay for the essentials(gas, electricity, food, etc.). I am thinking our only option is going to be to file a Ch 13(unfortunately we had a Ch 7 in 2000, so we can't do a ch. 7).

So I have a few questions(with about 7,000 more to come!! )

Everything has been paid up to date so far. Mortgages(have 80/20 mortgages), truck payment and credit cards. SO do I just stop paying the credit cards?? And I can use that money for groceries, gas, etc.? Anyone know how long after stopping paying the creditors(credit card companies) start any serious consequences?? Is it better to file bankruptcy right away or wait a few months? We want to keep our house, and we aren't behind on that at all.

I don't want to wait too long to file, and yet I don't want to file too soon and not have a vehicle that the kids and I can ever leave the house with(and we live about 6 miles from the nearest town, so it's not as if we can walk or ride a bike easily!!).

We just bought the truck in March(what the heck were we thinking...dilusional I guess )...We owe about $42,500 on the truck and I thought it was worth about $30-32,000 but just checked kbb and it's only worth about $21000 So we are definately wanting to get out from underneath the upside down vehicle. So if we stop paying that payment, any clue how long until they would reposess? Can we voluntarily drop it off somewhere for them??

I was hoping that if we kept paying the truck for right now(so they don't take it back), and stopped paying the cc's we could maybe buy a cheap $1200-1500 minivan to replace it and then once we had the replacement vehicle we could stop paying the truck and file?? Does this sound viable?? Both my husband and I would be filing, so it would be joint, if that matters?

We have 4 children, and my husband has a car, so if they take the truck without us having a different vehicle lined up for me and the kids then we would not even be able to get to a dr. appt or get groceries. And all 4 children are in car seats, so I definately don't want them to come reposess the truck and have the car seats in there without any way to get them back!!

It's really hard to think of just not paying the credit card companies and/or the truck...as everything was being paid on time up until this point. But I"m tired of wondering is there enough on this card left so I can get groceries or gas for the truck....we just keep getting more and more into debt trying to stay afloat!!

Thanks so much for any suggestions, etc.

Sara

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

momofmany

Welcome to the FORUM !

I finally reached the breaking point and realized we can't make all of our monthly payments. As does everyone in here having filed, getting ready to file, etc.

We are in Minnesota(in case that makes any difference). From Norther Virginia here.

We've been charging the charge cards just to pay for the essentials(gas, electricity, food, etc.). I am thinking our only option is going to be to file a Ch 13(unfortunately we had a Ch 7 in 2000, so we can't do a ch. 7).
That is unfortunate, how did you get back in to debt so fast, may we (I) ask??? JUST CURIOUS.

So I have a few questions(with about 7,000 more to come!! )

Everything has been paid up to date so far. Mortgages(have 80/20 mortgages), truck payment and credit cards. SO do I just stop paying the credit cards?? And I can use that money for groceries, gas, etc.? Anyone know how long after stopping paying the creditors(credit card companies) start any serious consequences?? Is it better to file bankruptcy right away or wait a few months? Just depends on what you used your credit cards for: FOR CASH ADVANCES, they say you should wait about 90 days from the date of your advance to the filing date. We want to keep our house, and we aren't behind on that at all. Just don't get behind on your Mortgage payments and vehicle payments, leave the rest of the creditors in the dust. Whatever money your paying the credits SAVE to pay the lawyer! I don't have assets so I'm not familiar with owning a house when filing BK. Plenty will chime in here to lend their expertise though! It usually takes a couple months for creditors to become serious, but one may never know you might have a creditor that acts alot faster than others. Once you RETAIN a lawyer, you usually can stave off the phone calls as the phone calls will go to your lawyer to handle. Once you PAY the lawyer and your case is filed, the automatic stay kicks in - YOU ARE UNTOUCHABLE to say the least.

I don't want to wait too long to file, and yet I don't want to file too soon and not have a vehicle that the kids and I can ever leave the house with(and we live about 6 miles from the nearest town, so it's not as if we can walk or ride a bike easily!!).

We just bought the truck in March(what the heck were we thinking...dilusional I guess )...We owe about $42,500 on the truck and I thought it was worth about $30-32,000 but just checked kbb and it's only worth about $21000 So we are definately wanting to get out from underneath the upside down vehicle. So if we stop paying that payment, any clue how long until they would reposess? Can we voluntarily drop it off somewhere for them?? Well if you don't want the truck than stop paying, but if you want the truck than keep paying them! REPO reps can be pretty sneaky and QUICK!

I was hoping that if we kept paying the truck for right now(so they don't take it back), and stopped paying the cc's we could maybe buy a cheap $1200-1500 minivan to replace it and then once we had the replacement vehicle we could stop paying the truck and file?? Does this sound viable?? Both my husband and I would be filing, so it would be joint, if that matters?

We have 4 children, and my husband has a car, so if they take the truck without us having a different vehicle lined up for me and the kids then we would not even be able to get to a dr. appt or get groceries. And all 4 children are in car seats, so I definately don't want them to come reposess the truck and have the car seats in there without any way to get them back!! You definitely want to get yourself into a new/used vehicle before you file because you cant accumulate new debt without the trustees permission and your interest rate on a new/used vehicle IF approved will skyrocket. I didn't have a car payment for the longest time, but my car got flooded a month before I actually filed. So I had no choice, and bought myself an inexpensive NEW car (Hyundai Sonata). I'm finances throught the dealer and they allow me to "ride through," which means as long as I make my payments on time if not early they won't come get the car. According to the NEW BK LAWS though, you are not allowed to ride through anymore, you have to reaffirm your debt with the dealer or whoever finances your car. I think it all depends on the dealer though. FORD MOTORS I hear is one that will not allow you to ride through. AND DONT tell the dealer your getting ready to file either (that might disrupt your chances of getting into a car at all) IF you plan to file.

It's really hard to think of just not paying the credit card companies and/or the truck...as everything was being paid on time up until this point. But I"m tired of wondering is there enough on this card left so I can get groceries or gas for the truck....we just keep getting more and more into debt trying to stay afloat!!

STOP USING your credit cards, they say IF YOU KNOW you are going to file it could be FRAUD. But thats a longshot. YOU DEFINITELY can't be using the cc's once you've filed - you got some big explaining to do to the trustee if you do that!

BEST OF LUCK, CATCHMEIFYOUCAN

[momofmany]

Welcome to the FORUM !


We've been charging the charge cards just to pay for the essentials(gas, electricity, food, etc.). I am thinking our only option is going to be to file a Ch 13(unfortunately we had a Ch 7 in 2000, so we can't do a ch. 7).
That is unfortunate, how did you get back in to debt so fast, may we (I) ask??? JUST CURIOUS.

I've been trying to ask myself this same question!! I think poor management of money...also I was really trying to be frugal....shopping at thrift stores, buying stuff on clearance because it was "such a great deal" and ended up buying stuff we didn't even need because it was "cheap". I never intended to get back into debt again. It kind of kept creaping up on us. I don't want to make excuses for getting into this situation as it's my fault...should have learned the lesson after the Ch. 7 in 2000. Back then it was easier to get a bk I think, and I never really learned anything to help prevent it from happening again. I don't ever want to be in this position again, so hopefully this time I can really learn my lesson.(none of this is my husband's fault as he put me in charge of the $$).



STOP USING your credit cards, they say IF YOU KNOW you are going to file it could be FRAUD. But thats a longshot. YOU DEFINITELY can't be using the cc's once you've filed - you got some big explaining to do to the trustee if you do that!

BEST OF LUCK, CATCHMEIFYOUCAN


Thanks Catchmeifyoucan. We have stopped using the cc's since I realized we just can't do this anymore. Now if I can just figure out how to get a different vehicle before getting the truck repod!!

Sara

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

Why don't you just trade the truck in ? ? ?

CMIYC

[follie]

When was your first Ch 7 discharged? Your 7 year mark is coming up, if you can wait a little while.

[SinkingFast]

When was your first Ch 7 discharged? Your 7 year mark is coming up, if you can wait a little while.

New Law changed the time frame from 6 years to 8 years required between filings.

Momofmany,................

If you're already robbing Peter to pay Paul, charging essentials on Credit so you can pay your minimums, you should probably go ahead and quit paying your CC's.

You'll need to live a cash and carry lifestyle for a while in order to give any attny you hire a decent budget of what it costs for you to live.

If you're like most of us, you have lots of expenses you don't even think about. You just swipe and run. The purchase is charged and you don't even think about it. You probably don't know how much you spend on groceries, or gasoline, or toilet paper every month.

Plus, you've probably put off necessities because you don't have money to purchase or pay. Doctors office visits, dentist, eye doctor, clothes, and such. Things you put on the back burner because they can wait and you don't have the money.

It will take a while for your new cash lifestyle to settle in. You'll need several months before you could give anyone a realistic budget of how much it costs for you to live every month.

[momofmany]

Why don't you just trade the truck in ? ? ?

CMIYC

CMIYC, We can't trade the truck in because we owe like $42,500 and it's only worth maybe $20,000 !!! We have no way of coming up with the $22,000 negative equity! Otherwise we would get just get rid of the truck. If we didn't have the truck pymt we might not have to file bk; not sure!! But we have it, and don't have $20,000 laying around to get it to the actual value. Sara

[momofmany]

New Law changed the time frame from 6 years to 8 years required between filings.

Momofmany,................

If you're already robbing Peter to pay Paul, charging essentials on Credit so you can pay your minimums, you should probably go ahead and quit paying your CC's.

You'll need to live a cash and carry lifestyle for a while in order to give any attny you hire a decent budget of what it costs for you to live.

If you're like most of us, you have lots of expenses you don't even think about. You just swipe and run. The purchase is charged and you don't even think about it. You probably don't know how much you spend on groceries, or gasoline, or toilet paper every month.

Plus, you've probably put off necessities because you don't have money to purchase or pay. Doctors office visits, dentist, eye doctor, clothes, and such. Things you put on the back burner because they can wait and you don't have the money.

It will take a while for your new cash lifestyle to settle in. You'll need several months before you could give anyone a realistic budget of how much it costs for you to live every month.

Sinkingfast,

Now I've heard conflicting opinions. Is the 8 years between filings from the date you filed or the date of discharge?? We filed our Ch. 7 March 30, 2000 and it was discharged July 2000...

I do think it's time to stop paying the cc's...it's so scary to do this....kind of like jumping off a cliff...the unknown...

As I've been reading online and from the book I got about bk, and them saying about expenses, I was thinking I have no idea how much we actually spend!!!!!!

We definately have some dental work that needs to get done that we couldn't afford to do. I've put off mine hoping they wouldn't start to hurt before I could do anything about them.

I wish I had a crystal ball to know how long after stop paying the truck they would take it....if it was a couple months, i would take the $700/month we were paying on that and buy a $1,200 vehicle to replace the truck. I wonder how likely it is they would take it within 30 days?? Because I have the amount in my checkbook for the June payment, and if I could take that and then use the amount I would normally save up in the month of June for the July payment and get a cheap van, that would be super!! Then they could take the truck and I'd be totally fine with that as long as we had our stuff out of it and a different vehicle lined up.

Then once we had a replacement vehicle, we could use the $700 we were paying for the truck and use that to save for a lawyer. I'm so scared!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the replies!!

Sara

[lrprn]

Now I've heard conflicting opinions. Is the 8 years between filings from the date you filed or the date of discharge?? We filed our Ch. 7 March 30, 2000 and it was discharged July 2000...

It's from the date of filing. You could file Ch 7 again after March 1, 2008.

I wish I had a crystal ball to know how long after stop paying the truck they would take it....if it was a couple months, i would take the $700/month we were paying on that and buy a $1,200 vehicle to replace the truck.

Car lenders typically wait until you are two months behind in your payments before they start looking seriously at repossession. After two months with no payments, you should keep what you want to keep out of the vehicle when you leave it anywhere because it could disappear at any time.

[SinkingFast]

I know this gonna sound crazy, but,.......... You might be able to make it until next spring. We're practically thru May, so that means you'd miss June '07 payments on. You're looking at 10 months of missed payments to file another Ch 7. You might just make it.

We went 9 months of missed payments and made it. We weren't even in any serious jeopardy of being sued by any of our Creditors. We owned old, beater cars and rented. Our house went into Foreclosure before we got lucky and sold it on a "break even" deal.

Others here went a year, 2 years, even several years in a few instances. So it can be done.

Depends on what you own. Do you have a house with significant equity or do you rent and own old beater cars. What kind of jobs you have. If your State allows for wage garnishments. That kind of thing.

Personally, I wouldn't jump to file were I in your shoes. Consult around. Get your attny picked. Start working on paying the attny's and filing fee for a Ch 7. It's likely the Ch 7 fee will be close to the deposit for a Ch 13. Get your docs and info all gathered and submitted. And wait. Wait. Wait. Don't move to file if you don't have to.

If something happens, you're gonna get notice. Generally, you'll have 20-30 days notice of a law suit. You can even slow that process down a couple of months by simply filing a written Response and appearing in Court.

Then, if you need to move to file, all you gotta do is get your pre BK Cert and you're good to go. Poof! Within a week, your petition can be filed.

Meanwhile, start saving receipts from all your purchases and bills you pay so you can figure your budget. Get your dental work done. Take the total bill, and divide by 12. There's one of your medicals expenses right there. Save all correspondence from your CC's. Bills. Letters from collectors. Everything.

Believe me when I say,.............. It's easier said than done. I know. Life in the BK holding pattern is no fun. But if you can make it, tough it out, the pay-off can be HUGE!!

[treehugger1]

If you need aditional time, there are many ways to stall. Learn your state laws: garnishment, etc. It might not be all that expensive to live through several months of 25% garnishment of net wages. You run the risk of getin gjudgments against you, but under many circumstances the judgments are not tied to any liens, and can probably be vacated in a BK. Try to make payments on those secured items that are an absolute requirement (student loans, mortgae, vehicles), But, you only need worry about paying on those items you know you absolutely need. As mentioned, go to a cash and carry economy using money orders for items requiring checks (you can get money orders at Walmart for under a buck). It might not be a bad idea to open a second bank account for the emergency situation where a creditor or collector gets an action against your current bank account. With backup plans and backups to backups, you can survive a long time. Once you've filed, youv'e played your last card. So, make sure the card you play is really necessary at the time. Eitgh months ago I thought I would need to file within weeks, but then I realized that when you have no real assests, there is little anyone can do to you except that which is irritating. It is not a criminal offense to owe money and not pay (except in cases of fraud), so you hold the upper hand. For me, worst case scenario is a wage garnishment, but I can live fine on 75% of takehome pay. So far, I have not had a wage garnishment and creditors seem to understand it is in theor best interest to accept whatever I can give them at this time. Dealing with creditors and collection agencies migh seem stressful, but not nearly as stressful as a quick move to BK. Educate yourself with all options. You have some time. My humble opinion.

[melonhead]

Filing

Now I've heard conflicting opinions. Is the 8 years between filings from the date you filed or the date of discharge?? We filed our Ch. 7 March 30, 2000 and it was discharged July 2000...

I do think it's time to stop paying the cc's...it's so scary to do this....kind of like jumping off a cliff...the unknown...

As I've been reading online and from the book I got about bk, and them saying about expenses, I was thinking I have no idea how much we actually spend!!!!!!

We definately have some dental work that needs to get done that we couldn't afford to do. I've put off mine hoping they wouldn't start to hurt before I could do anything about them.

I wish I had a crystal ball to know how long after stop paying the truck they would take it....if it was a couple months, i would take the $700/month we were paying on that and buy a $1,200 vehicle to replace the truck. I wonder how likely it is they would take it within 30 days?? Because I have the amount in my checkbook for the June payment, and if I could take that and then use the amount I would normally save up in the month of June for the July payment and get a cheap van, that would be super!! Then they could take the truck and I'd be totally fine with that as long as we had our stuff out of it and a different vehicle lined up.

Then once we had a replacement vehicle, we could use the $700 we were paying for the truck and use that to save for a lawyer. I'm so scared!!!!!!!!!! Thanks for the replies!!

Sara

There is a difference of opinion, but I am sure you cannot file until there is 8 years between the dates of filing, with Chapter 7.

All of the posts seem to lean from one extreme to another.

Undoubtedly, the truck payment is a big part of your problem. Let them repo it.

You don't say who your credit cards are, what their limits are, what if any available balances or payments are.

If you have 'room' availability in some, you may want to use one or more to pay off the others. Higher balances owing usually mean lower payments.

The total due on a single $10,000 balance might be $400 a month, while 2 $5000 cards require $650.

Next, subtract the $ you now pay to the credit cards, then look at your cash needs for mortgage/rent, insurances, food, clothing, cable etc. Is there enough Cash to purchase/pay for these? If not, neither bankruptcy nor repo will help, your budget is out of whack.

Filing and repo won't help, they will restart the borrowing.