Payment for Secured Loans

[Granny]

Isn't there a section of the CH 13 laws that limits the payments to secured creditors to the value of their asset. Does this include all the interest that is paid through the plan, or is the interest on top of that value?

It's still eating at me about that stupid truck. We refinanced 32K in Nov. and we will be paying those blood suckers 49K through the plan, but the creditor's claim placed a value of between 42-45K. I understand they want and deserve the present value of their loan, but geez!

Now that the judge has signed off on the MTLS with it's outragous terms, do I still have any recourse?

I have it on tape where I never actually said, "Yes file the agreed order" All I said to the paralegal was "Right" and then we went on to another topic.

[aa06a47]

Isn't there a section of the CH 13 laws that limits the payments to secured creditors to the value of their asset. Does this include all the interest that is paid through the plan, or is the interest on top of that value?

It's still eating at me about that stupid truck. We refinanced 32K in Nov. and we will be paying those blood suckers 49K through the plan, but the creditor's claim placed a value of between 42-45K. I understand they want and deserve the present value of their loan, but geez!

Now that the judge has signed off on the MTLS with it's outragous terms, do I still have any recourse?

I have it on tape where I never actually said, "Yes file the agreed order" All I said to the paralegal was "Right" and then we went on to another topic.

I believe you are referring to the cram down for automobiles. The new law changed that provision. Now, if you surrendered the vehical, the creditor would have received the vehical back, and any amount "lost" would be unsecured debt which would have received the same treatment as other creditors.

Since you kept the vehical, suck it up and don't let it eat at you. Since your paying all disposible income, I don't think it would change anything. This way, you have your truck, and the unsecured creditors will just be getting less.

[Granny]

Since you kept the vehical, suck it up and don't let it eat at you. Since your paying all disposible income, I don't think it would change anything. This way, you have your truck, and the unsecured creditors will just be getting less.

Ok, so what happens in 3 years when I am still paying on that truck and it has 1.5 million miles (literally) and it breaks down for the final time and we give it back. We are back at square one, with nothing paid toward the arrearage on the house and nothing to the IRS, and then no income because the truck is not repairable.

This will not be a fresh start, it is just postponing the inevitable.

[Granny]

Let me go back to my original question and restate what I am asking.

The original refi note was for $33,662 for 24 months at $1,640 per month for a total of 39K

The BK has me paying a total of 49K over 60 months. They will be making a total of 16K in interest off of a 33K note.

Isn't there something that can be done to limit the interest they can make off of me. This looks ridiculous to me, for them to get an extra 11 grand, and I'm in BK.

[HHM]

Isn't there something that can be done to limit the interest they can make off of me.

Not to be cute, but...Give the truck back!

[Granny]

Not to be cute, but...Give the truck back!

Not to be ugly, but just how am I supposed to do that when hubby is telling me to keep it until he can find a job. I'm just trying to make the best of things here. I'm stuck between an attorney who gave me bad advice, an attorney who obviously is not on my side and a husband who can't take the time to find another source of income because he is working away from home.

If this plan is confirmed as it is now written, I will fail and then I don't know what to do except move to a shelter and live off my dear Uncle Sam.

I know it sounds like I am whining and *****ing, but everytime I look at this mess, I just keep thinking...this isn't right!!! There has to be a solution.

[Granny]

Not to be cute, but...Give the truck back!

You do understand that we make our living with that truck, it's not some soupped up, chromed out, heavy duty duelley, show piece pick up truck, don't you? It would be neither quick or easy for a 53 yr old man to find a comparable paying job when that's all he's done for years.

And I've been told that since I have not worked in 4 years, that I won't be able to go back to my same rate of pay, if I could get hired at all. Potential employers don't think I am current on the latest changes in the field, but I'm over qualified for a lesser job. They won't hire me because they don't think I would stay if something better came up. Apparently, it is not acceptable to a potential employer to tell them I have been home for 4 years raising grandbabies with fetal alcohol exposure.

However, I have spent the better part of the night trying different scenarios with the Best Case software and if the attorney will file the plan using the scenarios I came up with, I could save at least $4000.00 in the interest charges and my payment would be $112.00 a month less.

[aa06a47]

Granny, sounds like you should convert to a chapter 7. I would ask your new attorney to look at converting you to a chapter 7 instead of amending a plan. Your husband should file as well since he is out of work and that would work to your favor in getting a confirmed chapter 7 through.

[aa06a47]

Let me go back to my original question and restate what I am asking.

The original refi note was for $33,662 for 24 months at $1,640 per month for a total of 39K

The BK has me paying a total of 49K over 60 months. They will be making a total of 16K in interest off of a 33K note.

Isn't there something that can be done to limit the interest they can make off of me. This looks ridiculous to me, for them to get an extra 11 grand, and I'm in BK.

Granny, how could you expect to pay $1640/month for a truck when your bankrupt? How could you expect to pay $1640/month before you were bankrupt? Finance charges suck, but I'm sorry, they are a way of life when you finance your vehicals.

[Granny]

Granny, how could you expect to pay $1640/month for a truck when your bankrupt? How could you expect to pay $1640/month before you were bankrupt? Finance charges suck, but I'm sorry, they are a way of life when you finance your vehicals.

I don't have a problem with finance charges, my problem is the fact that they are now getting an extra $11 thousand in interest in addition to the interest the note called for originally. I was told we would pay this off at 4% interest for 5 years and we will be paying 12% for 5 years, which is a whole lot more than the original contract.

We were paying $1640 per month at one point, but the increased price of fuel made it impossible to continue. Income did not keep pace with the rise in fuel prices. BK was supposed to be a way to put us back on a level playing field. It hasn't done that.

[HHM]

I know your situation, but the fact of the matter is, you asked

"Isn't there something that can be done to limit the interest they can make off of me."

And unfortunatly, the only answer that is readily available is to give the truck back, so even if the answer comes off as flippant, it really is the only answer. (with regard to your specific quesstion about the interst you are being charged).

You are stuck in a catch 22, you need the truck, the BK laws allow the creditor to get the benefit of the "deal" and not just value of the secured assets, and you made this agreement to extend the payments. (or at any rate, your lawyer did, and you may have to sort that out in a seperate venue). The reality is, sometimes the answer to our problems and questions are not something we like.

[wrinkleigh]

I agree with everyone else who has said, give the truck back.

If that is the main source of income, and it is not GONE, it could put you below the median, and qualify you for a CH7. If you are going into a 13 knowing you are going to fail, you are throwing your money and your chance for a fresh start out the window.

DH and I owed a lot of money, so he was in a situation where he had to make a lot of money to pay our bills. He worked in a highly stressful job for a long time, because he didnt have a choice. It is so nice now that we filed, dh can afford to make a lot less money, because it takes a lot less to live on. I kid him that he can be a wal-mart greeter if he wants no stress!

Maybe if you give up the truck, DH could find another job with lower pay, and you could AFFORD it because you would not have the ch13 expenses over your head.

I know you are angry, but you need to get past that anger and face your situation, I think you and dh are in denial. No one on here means to be flippant, the beauty of this board, is you can get objectice advice from people who can see all sides.

[Granny]

I agree with everyone else who has said, give the truck back.

If that is the main source of income, and it is not GONE, it could put you below the median, and qualify you for a CH7.

Maybe if you give up the truck, DH could find another job with lower pay, and you could AFFORD it because you would not have the ch13 expenses over your head.

I know you are angry, but you need to get past that anger and face your situation, I think you and dh are in denial. No one on here means to be flippant, the beauty of this board, is you can get objectice advice from people who can see all sides.

But you are not seeing all sides...I have to do a Ch13 to save my house, I could not rent for less than my house payment.

I am already below the median income. We were both unemployed once before and it took us months to find employment. It's not as easy once you reach the 50 year old mark. In a matter of one month, I would be dismissed, no income, no place to live and no chance of getting a place to live.

[jenbes27]

Granny,

I don't know your entire story, but I wanted to throw out some ideas to help you brainstorm your way out of this mess:

- You only need to file chapter 13 to save the house if you are behind in payments or are protecting equity. You could reaffirm your mortgage and stay in the house in a ch 7. If you are behind, is there some way you can make up the payments (give yourself a bonus in your salary? borrow money from your corp?)

- If you have a lot of valuable acreage, perhaps you could divide your land and sell it to raise money to pay for the truck.

- I don't think your going to find a way out of the truck sitation since you recently refinanced it, unless you give it back. And if it is going to be worthless in a few years, maybe it would be better to give it back. I hear in 1 -2 years after filing you can finance a vehicle. And you guys can figure out a way to make it until then, either way I think that would relieve a lot of stress.

-Is there any gov't assistance you can get for taking care of your grandkids?

anyway it sounds like you are juggling a lot right now, and your doing good by taking care of your family and trying to find a way out of this financial situation. I agree with you that a ch 13 is a very scarey process, especially when it comes to budgeting enough for the necessities. I don't think they want you to live in poverty, if I were in your situation, I might talk to a few more lawyers, it doesn't seem right that they wouldn't leave enough if your budget to feed your family, as long as your expenses are justified. I wouldn't blindly trust the lawyers because the trustees ( who are also lawyers) make as much as 10% off of your monthly payments to the bk estate. So I don't think they are necessarily looking out for our best interests. I finally found a lawyer I think I can trust.

I think if you think (and pray) you will find the right solution.

[Granny]

Jenbes,

Thanks for the attempt to help, I really do appreciate it.

- You only need to file chapter 13 to save the house if you are behind in payments or are protecting equity. You could reaffirm your mortgage and stay in the house in a ch 7. If you are behind, is there some way you can make up the payments (give yourself a bonus in your salary? borrow money from your corp?)

We were behind in the mortgage payments, that was the whole reason for filing, in fact it is the only reason I filed and I had to do it in haste to prevent foreclosure. All it took was a few bad months, a hefty increase in fuel and a major breakdown with downtime to put us here. Imagine buying 600 gallons for gasoline a week. And even though the price of gasoline went down for a while, the price of diesel did not.

- If you have a lot of valuable acreage, perhaps you could divide your land and sell it to raise money to pay for the truck.

Nope, only two acres.

I don't think your going to find a way out of the truck sitation since you recently refinanced it, unless you give it back. And if it is going to be worthless in a few years, maybe it would be better to give it back.

It really isn't worthless until it has the next major breakdown and that should be in about 2-3 years. Until then, it still generates revenue.

-Is there any gov't assistance you can get for taking care of your grandkids?

Legally, they are now my kids, we have adopted them, but they still call us grandma and grandpa. Texas is not generous with it's welfare and there's not much available there, we don't even qualify for Medicaid.

It too late to talk to anymore attorney's. We filed in December and the judge has already signed on the order to pay the excessive interest on the truck.

What I have to do is quite obsessing about the current situation, pray for good revenue for the corporation, pray for no breakdowns and work on a strategy of what to do in 2-3 years when this house of cards come crumbling down.

Thanks for the positive thoughts,they really do help and I'm glad you were able to find an attorney you can trust.