If so many people fail in a 13...

[sophie]

Why would the gov't make most people go through it? If you fail, wouldn't you then be even worse off then when you originally filed? I think that's part of the puzzle I'm not getting. I don't mind having to be "disciplined" if that's even the right word for 5 years, but what I do mind is being set up to fail irom the beginning. I will need major things i.e. new roof, etc. in the next 5 years. I have no savings as all of you I'm sure, so I don't get it. From what I'm reading (and knowing), the trustees don't allow certain expenses, i.e. animal care, etc. and even though they don't allow it, it's still part of my real life. So, if they give you an unreasonable payback amount every month, and I know in a lot of cases they do, hence the failure, where is the helping with the fresh start? I really don't get it. I mean 2 out of 3 people fail?? Something doesn't seem right with this whole 13 thing. And since you don't have any emergency fund, and can't get a "loan" per se, what do you do when you have a big emergency like a new roof? I'm so confused and so petrified. If I fail, I am worse off then before I filed because I would have all the original debt back plus interest. They don't include the monies you've paid into the payback (from my understanding). Anyway, sorry for the long message.

[keepmine]

Mr/Ms trustee are not your friends that's for sure.
Why are you in a 13? Too much dispolsable income or, assets above the exemption level for your state?
You do know you are allowed to petition the trustee for a plan moldification to take care of emergency expenses?

[coma]

I see what you are saying, Sophie. You can modify the plan, but in most cases that $300, $1000, or whatever is not going to be enough in one, two, or even three months to pay a major expense, and it's not like you can modify and have savings to fall back on, because there is no money left to save, and you can't borrow (understandably). We've cut everything to bare bones to try to save something, but we can't do it either. Most are doomed to fail, and that probably won't change. There's too much money for lawyers and trustees to make off of 13 filers, inmy opinion.

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

I guess Ch13 is to stop those who DO ABUSE the system ! But they are finding that with MOST who file - it is not the case. However, if you do have disposable income, I guess nothing is ever FREE, they want you to pay back those darn creditors. I guess its the honest way of doing things. However do understand the creditors are getting less back with the new laws than would have in the old laws if you are lucky to payback a percentage instead of 100% ! If you income changes drastically - you can always convert to Ch7 ! I DID, I just had to come to a decision to quit one job - fall below the median and pay nothing or work my arsss off for the next 5 years working 80hrs a week. It made sense to quit one job for a couple months and pay NOTHING. I'm discharged now. A very low percentage of 13 filers dont make it all the way through the plan, but I praise those that do ! ! ! 3-5 years is a long time !

Catchmeifyoucan

[$$only4ever]

I am currently in a chapter 13-have made 22 payments with 38 to go.
My thoughts on why so many chapter 13's fail:

1) Right at the beginning, if your lawyer does not assist you with a expense budget with some "wiggle" room, you are probably doomed.

2) If you are going to get into a chapter 13, you have to get a new mindset. Gone are the days of free spending. Now every penney counts. I really urge everyone do not obtain any new credit while you are in a chapter 13, in case something unexpected happens.

3) Try to put away something for emergencies. So far, in chapter 13, DH had to have shoulder surgery and will have to have 2 knee replacements, so I have to try to save $$ for the expenses not covered under my medical insurance.

4) But the most important reason that many chapter 13's do get discharged: I am determined (as well as many others on this forum) to complete my plan and get discharged.

As you can see, life throws you all unexpected surprises, which of course were never factored into your expenses when you set up your plan for chapter 13. (surgeries, car repairs, appliance replacement, braces, glasses for the kids, etc, etc)I have been creative to say the least, but it has taught me many valuable lessons, like never getting another credit card again, and learning to live within your means.

[aa06a47]

Alot of opinions on why people fail to make it, I would suspect those unexpected expenses / job losses are the main reasons for failure in a chapter 13 for those who are dedicated to making the plan work.

Talking about credit, I went bankrupt with around 150k in credit card debt....most of which was from gambling. I am confident had I not went and gotten the help I needed for this addiction, I would probably fail my chapter 13.

In a nutshell what I'm trying to say, if you expect to succeed under a chapter 13, you will really have to change your behaviour that got you there. (Not talking about those with medical expenses). If you continue to do the same thing over and over, you will get the same results.

In my case, problem gambler, had I not changed the behaviour, I am certain I would be a life long member of this board and I would be here to file again, and again, and again....

[BKOnce]

C13 requires total prepareness, discipline, leeway, & flexibility.

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

aa06a47

Alot of opinions on why people fail to make it, I would suspect those unexpected expenses / job losses are the main reasons for failure in a chapter 13 for those who are dedicated to making the plan work.
Talking about credit, I went bankrupt with around 150k in credit card debt....most of which was from gambling. I am confident had I not went and gotten the help I needed for this addiction, I would probably fail my chapter 13.
In a nutshell what I'm trying to say, if you expect to succeed under a chapter 13, you will really have to change your behaviour that got you there. (Not talking about those with medical expenses). If you continue to do the same thing over and over, you will get the same results.
In my case, problem gambler, had I not changed the behaviour, I am certain I would be a life long member of this board and I would be here to file again, and again, and again....

Just a question for aa06a47 .. did the Trustee mention anything to you about your gambling addiction? Did you go to Gamblers Anonymous classes? Most of my debt was gambling too.

Catchmeifyoucan

[aa06a47]

Alot of opinions on why people fail to make it, I would suspect those unexpected expenses / job losses are the main reasons for failure in a chapter 13 for those who are dedicated to making the plan work.
Talking about credit, I went bankrupt with around 150k in credit card debt....most of which was from gambling. I am confident had I not went and gotten the help I needed for this addiction, I would probably fail my chapter 13.
In a nutshell what I'm trying to say, if you expect to succeed under a chapter 13, you will really have to change your behaviour that got you there. (Not talking about those with medical expenses). If you continue to do the same thing over and over, you will get the same results.
In my case, problem gambler, had I not changed the behaviour, I am certain I would be a life long member of this board and I would be here to file again, and again, and again....

Just a question for aa06a47 .. did the Trustee mention anything to you about your gambling addiction? Did you go to Gamblers Anonymous classes? Most of my debt was gambling too.

Catchmeifyoucan

The only thing the trustee asked at the 341 meeting was in relation to almost 180K in gambling winnings reported on my tax return. I had to prove (which was easy as I had all the documents from the boats) that I lost more than the 180k I won. They didn't ask anything about if I had sought help. I did, but not until after my 341 meeting.