Where to find a motion for a rule 2004 examination

[Twrecked123]

Where can I find out if there was a motion filed for a rule 2004 exam in Massachusetts

[justbroke]

You can look in PACER which gives you access to your court's Electronic Docket.

[Twrecked123]

Oh thank you! I will check it out now.

[Twrecked123]

So I checked it out and it said “there are no other case filings against this case”
If there was a motion filed would it say, there would be other case filings against it?

[justbroke]

It wouldn't be a case filing. A Rule 2004 Examination is done on motion.

It would be on the docket and would probably have a title such as "Motion for 2004 Examination" or other machinations such as "Motion by Ford Motor Credit for Order Requesting an Examination under Bankruptcy Rule 2004." There could also be a notice of Rule 2004 examination.

You should already know if you're going to be examined more closely because either the creditor or the United States Trustee would usually be in communication with the debtor's attorney. I haven't heard of too many of these in a Chapter 13 context but they can happen.

Do you have a specific concern or are expecting to be examined under Rule 2004?

[Twrecked123]

Hi yes at the 341 meeting a creditor (the lawyer) is for a judgement that was made against my husband was taking too long at the 341 so the trustee asked if the lawyer wanted a 2004 exam he said yes she said ok it’s on 11/29.
this was the first time I ever heard anything about that. He is looking for money we don’t have.
So in the meantime I am trying to prepare my lawyer is not responding to my emails or phone calls so I feel alone right now. And I’m scared.

[justbroke]

I wouldn't worry about the 2004 Examination. It reads as though you have a creditor that is a close relative, business partner, or friend. The Trustee told them that the 341 Meeting isn't for "examining" the debtor under oath and that if they want a Rule 2004 Exam then they need to request one. Unless your have been noticed that there is a 2004 Exam (on paper) then I would say there isn't one scheduled or requested.

Maybe the creditor's attorney has second thoughts about having one. I think that the Trustee was 100% correct to stop the creditor from taking the 341 Meeting to "thoroughly" ask questions. That's the purpose of the 2004 Exam and the 341 is not the time for detailed questions. Usually, a creditor will request a 2004 Examination to get the debtor under oath to make admissions so that the creditor can determine whether to file a complaint related to the dischargeability of a debt.

While this does happen, it doesn't happen that often. Sometimes the (creditor's) attorney is just probing but ultimately the creditor has to decide if it's worth the $$$ and expense. The Rule 2004 Exam is less expensive than filing a complaint and then spending $$$ and finding out the debt is dischargeable and there's nothing the creditor can do to stop it from being discharged.

Keep calling your attorney.

[Twrecked123]

Thank you and thank goodness for this forum. I went back in and looked under dockets and it’s a continuation of the 341.
I keep hearing these things are rare yet here I am.
I really appreciate your inputs. And yes I will keep calling him. At the end of the 341 the lawyer was not phased at all.
question, how long can the next 341 meeting last? Or average I am guessing.

[justbroke]

They are "rare" because many creditors may want a Rule 2004 Exam, but don't want to go through the effort if they are paying an attorney $500/hr to actually notice and hold one. I can't tell you if the creditor's attorney is telling the creditor that it's not worth the time, effort, and money.

How long can a continued 341 Meeting last? They usually don't even hold them. The issues are typically resolved before that date between the debtor's attorney and the Trustee.

The Trustee continued the meeting so that the creditor attorney could seek and notice a Rule 2004 Examination. It reads as though the creditor attorney hasn't yet sought the exam. This exam is not done at a 341 Meeting so I don't know why the Trustee would say that it's "on November 29." It reads as though the 341 Meeting was continued to November 29. If nothing happens by then the Trustee will usually just "conclude" the meeting.

Good news is that your discharge will come shortly after 60 days from that first scheduled 341 Meeting. Personally, I don't know why the Trustee would continue the meeting on a creditor's desire for a Rule 2004 exam.

(Please know that if this is a "close" creditor who is just mad because their debt is going to be discharged, I can tell you that this huffing and puffing happens all the time. It's worse when it's an insider (friend, family member, business partner) because they are operating on their feelings and not what the bankruptcy code can do. If this creditor is a bank or large creditor such as some financial institution the creditor attorney should be able to determine and counsel the creditor on whether or not it is worth the time to pursue a non-dischargeability complaint.)

[Twrecked123]

Thank you so much.
this is for a chapter 13 for 3 years.
It was a judgement for a lot of money but I don’t know what he is trying to get and yes it’s kind of a close creditor so there’s lots of huffing and puffing.
During the 341 he was asking a lot of weird questions that had nothing to do with our current debt. And I think the trustee was a little annoyed with him.
wish me luck I will be around for awhile.

[justbroke]

I'm sure the Chapter 13 Trustee was annoyed. They can smell a "close" creditor a mile away. They give them a few minutes to ask some questions at the 341 Meeting, but the 341 Meeting is not the place to do a complete examination of the debtor, as it is called.

Hopefully the creditor's attorney took them aside and told them it wasn't worth the hassle.

[Twrecked123]

It was the creditor’s attorney who did it! I know that’s rare as well😫