Question When Is An Old Car Not Worth Repairing in 2022?

[Barbisi]

I have been reading posts on here that as long as a car has a working engine, no matter how old, it should be repaired into infinity.
My car is a 2005 Nissan (purchased in Fall 2004) with more than 200k in miles. In 2020 we spent more than 3k to keep it on the road.
Our Bk13 is supposed to end in 2/22. This car will probably need new brakes and maybe a catalytic converter to pass the required Colorado emissions test in May. If the car fails, should we spend the $$$$ necessary to keep it street legal?
I understand there are no decent used vehicles to be had for under 10K, but is it really worth pouring a couple of thousands more into a car that has no working speakers (i.e. no radio or CD player) and other growing problems? When is a car simply too old to invest more money into?
Nissan especially has a terrible reputation now, and besides our goal is to sell out and spend cash before moving to get my husband a nice ,reliable new car for work and so we can safely travel to nearby towns once we have relocated. He had to use almost the entire stimulus this year just to pay $3800+ for a new transmission on his 2013 Nissan, and as I write this ,his car needs new struts and an alignment (about 1K).
We also will probably have to come up with 6k+ for a new home furnace once this BK13 ends.
Are these two old cars really worth that much, given the maker? Wouldn't it be better to buy one new car, ditch the 2005, and let me drive the 2013, since I don't have very far to go on a daily basis?

[shipo]

I can easily argue both for and against keeping the 2005 Nisan; in it's favor, once repaired, it will be a car which should last another year or two with no car payment.

Working against it is ongoing maintenance; what else is likely to go wrong with the car in the next year or two?

The way the old car game works best is if you budget a certain amount for required maintenance, unscheduled maintenance, and even preventative maintenance. Yes, doing so can be a bit costly for a poorly maintained car, and often even for one which has been reasonably well maintained. In 2018 I dumped $5,000 in my (then) 12-year old car with 135,000 miles on it for pretty much everything from tires, brakes, wiper blades, suspension components, and a new clutch. Over the last 3-years and 40,000+ miles I haven't spent a dime on it for anything other than oil changes and tire rotations/balancing, however, in the next year or two it'll need tires and brakes again, a timing belt, and probably a refresh on the exhaust system. Even still, it is by far the cheapest ride going.

Edit: Oops! I lied, I had to put a new battery in it last year.

[Barbisi]

Well shipo, with this car as far as what may go wrong ,there is always the transmission, radiator, drive train, the front axel, etc. It broke down three times in 2020 and had to be towed all three times - I was told I was lucky it didn't happen while I was driving on the road! Luckily, I have been able to get around after the starter and alternator were replaced and a total tune up was done, as well as replacing the tires. So what else could wrong, you ask? LOL
It is running so well precisely because it is driven so few miles now. I would be afraid to drive it really far for fear it would break down unexpectedly. And as a woman alone, I wouldn't want to be at the mercy of a random passerby - safety in these dangerous times is nothing to laugh at!
If I were able to drive my husband's current 2013 car, I would definitely feel more secure, because it is much "younger" and has already had it's transmission replaced as noted above, plus it only has 135,000 miles on it at present. There are so many little things wrong with my car, and a few could become very costly to repair and maintain as the parts become increasingly difficult to find. For example, the air conditioner button sometimes doesn't work and on a 100 degree Colorado day, that could be a real problem. Also, the inside driver's door handle is close to breaking off, which would make it problematic to get out of the car when I'm driving and have parked, the back passenger window doesn't work (meaning the window can't ever be rolled down-that's Okay -but what if I couldn't roll my own driver's side or the front passenger window down?) I think a number of electric/computer controls may be close to giving out, and there is no telling when something critical may happen.
It sounds like your 15 year old car is just a better make, and you are quite the car enthusiast, so you are better able to deal with repairs and upkeep.
Given how badly I want to leave the source of more than seven years of misery, I think taking a battered old vehicle along to a new location where we want a fresh start, like BK13 promises, will only saddle us with a potentially fatal outcome ( i.e. traffic accident) in the making.
And, if we buy the car outright with some of the home proceeds, we wouldn't have a car payment anyway.

[Clay3007]

Im still driving a 2002 cavalier and 1/2 way threw my plan, my wife thinks we should have gotten something else before we started but we don't have e-check here in the part of Ohio i live in. One plus is I'm a mechanic so piecing it back together for cheap is my speciality. I have only had 1 brand new car in my life even growing up so I'm used to making it work. But i understand how people feel about cars who don't work on them. The market is so crazy right now tho its not even funny.

[Zombie13]

One concern we have with keeping the 2005 Sentra is, availability of parts. Last year the alternator failed, and the mechanic was having difficulty locating a replacement one. So, I have a question. Are parts like alternators, transmissions, radiators, catalytic converter kits, power steering assemblies, etc. designed to fit multiple years/models of vehicles? As the car ages, the probability of finding parts goes down. There is always the junk yard, but there usually is no warranty.
On a side note, we have replaced the passenger sun visor 3 times, at about $45 each time... annoying. Last one is actually the driver side visor, and I reversed it.
If we spend, say, $1500 per year on this vehicle, then at 5 years, we would have spent $7500 more by 2026... assuming the car does not rust out by then. Yes it's cheaper than a new car; then again, with a new/ new to us car (ie used with lower mileage and newer parts), the benefit of course is less hassle. Just things for us to consider, along with the high cost of vehicles at this time. Will continuing to fix this vehicle be "better for us" in the long run? Or will having a replacement vehicle be better for us in the long run? Shall we continue to fix this car until car prices drop, then replace it? There is also the safety issue.... we don't want a catastrophic system failure on the road, thus causing an accident which could have been avoided had we replaced the vehicle. Yes, we can have the vehicle checked of course, and find out what needs replacing, and the costs. We'll have to decide how long to repair the vehicle, and when to replace it.
Barbisi has mentioned, a good time to replace the vehicle is after we sell the house. That way we would/should have a reliable vehicle for 5-10 years. When we relocate, it would not make much sense to transport this car due to its age and condition; transporting also costs a considerable amount of money. This would be in addition to continued repair expenses.

[Barbisi]

Thank you Clay3007, for your comments!
Neither my husband or I are adept at auto repairs, so I appreciate your professional perspective.

I'm curious -as a mechanic , what is your opinion of Nissan cars?
When we bought our first of 3 Sentras back in 1999, we were very pleased with our choice, and that vehicle worked well for many years, even though we had to remove the heat shield, and it survived and remained fully drivable after an accident where the insurance company declared it "totaled". But since we bought my husband's current 2013 model, we have had to already repair it many, many times and since the start of the BK13 alone, we have spent probably 7K + to keep that car running. of course, during a bankruptcy this makes sense, given how difficult it is to obtain permission to incur new debt, but once the discharge and closing are awarded, it just doesn't seem financially sound to continue to pour money into my old 18 year old car!
We have no intention of ever buying another Nissan, as the quality is no longer what it once was.

[shipo]

A few comments:

• I drive a car 1 year newer than your Sentra and am a "car guy"; parts like alternators, starters, A/C compressors are built in mass and are specifically designed to fit multiple years of any given model/engine combination, but also multiple models with the similar or identical engine. Better still, there is a thriving "Remanufacturing" industry (remanufactured items are brought completely back to "new" specifications, unlike "Rebuilt" components where the failure was repaired, but the rest of the unit is simply cleaned up).
• With the above said, yes, certain items become harder and harder to find as cars age; however, such items are typically NOT critical components like suspension and drivetrain. Said another way, while finding trim pieces like visors, decorative trim, mirrors, and eventually lighting assemblies, can become more difficult to find, the critical items like engine, transmission, suspension, exhaust, heat exchangers (radiators, intercoolers, evaporators, and condensers), axle shafts, brakes, wheel bearings, and a whole host of wearable items are typically available for many-many years (hence the fact there are so many older cars still running in southern states).
• Regarding sudden catastrophic failure which can cause an accident; the worst any properly inspected and maintained vehicle should typically ever suffer is a tire failure (typically from hitting something or suffering a puncture). Do things like transmissions and engines occasionally fail? Yes. Does an engine or transmission failure rise to the level of an uncontrollable vehicle which can cause an accident? Possibly, but such an eventuality is extremely rare.
  • To the above point, over the two (or more) million miles I've driven, I've experienced exactly two engine failures and two transmission failures. In the case of both engine failures, I was able to drive the car a number of miles after the failure occurred (granted at reduced speeds). In the case of the transmission failures, the first failed over the course of 20 miles and I was able to get home before it completely failed, in the case of the second, I was on a freeway when it let go; the momentum of the vehicle enabled me to safely pull off the road and park the vehicle.
  • A second comment on the above, I've worked in the auto industry three times in my career, one of which happened to be in the lab in Montvale, NJ where Mercedes-Benz would bring "interesting" vehicles in for analysis, regardless of whether it was a bizarre accident which bent the vehicle in an unusual way, or an unexpected component failure. Of the many dozens (hundreds?) of vehicles we looked at, the worst failure was in a nearly brand new S600 sedan. The driver decided to drive through a flooded section of road which was deep enough to allow the air intakes to bring in enough water to hydro lock the engine. Instead of slowing down, the driver mashed the gas pedal and ended up pushing the engine so hard it bent all 12 of the connecting rods into pretzel shaped patterns, two of which broke and punctured holes into the side of the block. Yeah, that car sat in the middle of the road for several hours before it could be towed away. Side comment, the cylinder heads and all peripheral engine components were salvageable, the new "short block" (engine block, crank, pistons...) cost the owner of the car $25,000; and then there was the cost of all of the labor to repair it.
• As I've written before, I have no second thoughts jumping into an old, but well maintained, vehicle with lots of miles on the clock, and driving across the country. Over the years I've made nearly two dozen coast to coast trips, and more than half of them were in older vehicles with over 200,000 miles on the clock.

[Zombie13]

Thank you shipo, for the detailed information. Certainly all valid points for us to consider.
On a side note, at least, fortunately, the alternator was under warranty, so no charge for the replacement.
When I think of catastrophic failure, in particular, the left front axle on the 2013 Sentra just, broke off, as I pulled into the mechanic's parking lot. Yes, this should be found during a routine examination at the mechanic. I do not recall how long it had been since the last mechanic inspection of the vehicle. Had this happened on the open road though, I would not have control of the vehicle.

[shipo]

Thank you shipo, for the detailed information. Certainly all valid points for us to consider.
On a side note, at least, fortunately, the alternator was under warranty, so no charge for the replacement.
When I think of catastrophic failure, in particular, the left front axle on the 2013 Sentra just, broke off, as I pulled into the mechanic's parking lot. Yes, this should be found during a routine examination at the mechanic. I do not recall how long it had been since the last mechanic inspection of the vehicle. Had this happened on the open road though, I would not have control of the vehicle.

Believe it or not, a broken axle has absolutely nothing to do with the control of the vehicle; your steering, brakes, and suspension are all still fully functional, you will simply have no power being transmitted to the wheels (unless the vehicle has a limited slip differential which is typically only available on limited models and not on a Sentra) and the vehicle will glide to a halt.

[Zombie13]

Well, allow me to clarify. I could not steer. The left front corner of the vehicle had collapsed close to the tire. I tried to move forward, and in reverse, with very little movement. Granted this was from a complete stop. The mechanics had to get a manual jack to prop up the front of the car, and we pushed/pulled it into a parking spot. The left front wheel was not sitting 'vertical'. It was at an angle, with the top part rotated inward toward the car.
In other words, I had no control of the vehicle: no acceleration when I pressed on the gas pedal, no steering capability.
I will review the mechanic's invoice to verify what needed to be replaced.

[shipo]

Ahhh, then one of your control arms or one of the associated joints failed; any mechanic worth his or her salt *should* have caught that pending failure a year or two before it ultimately failed.

[flashoflight]

Look up car wizard on youtube if you are buying a replacement car or want a look at how high your repair bill can go with the wrong car. Another option I like is to NOT maintain the car and drive it til it dies outside oil changes. When the tires or brakes wear down, it may be time to put her down rather than buying new tires or new brakes.

[shipo]

Look up car wizard on youtube if you are buying a replacement car or want a look at how high your repair bill can go with the wrong car. Another option I like is to NOT maintain the car and drive it til it dies outside oil changes. When the tires or brakes wear down, it may be time to put her down rather than buying new tires or new brakes.

Wow, I cannot think of a more expensive way to have a car at one's disposal.

[Zombie13]

Ahhh, then one of your control arms or one of the associated joints failed; any mechanic worth his or her salt *should* have caught that pending failure a year or two before it ultimately failed.

yes, that sounds right. I guess (ok... blindingly obvious...) that's why they call it a 'Control' arm, huh? My thinking is: if I were driving at 65 mph when the left control arm failed, the left side would suddenly be moving slower than the right, and counterclockwise torque is induced, I lose control, and have a very bad day, to say the least. Under those conditions I don't think I would cruise straight to safety... maybe I would but I'm not keen on taking the chance.

[Zombie13]

Look up car wizard on youtube if you are buying a replacement car or want a look at how high your repair bill can go with the wrong car. Another option I like is to NOT maintain the car and drive it til it dies outside oil changes. When the tires or brakes wear down, it may be time to put her down rather than buying new tires or new brakes.

Thanks for the car wizard tip @flashoflight! Yes, replacing a vehicle before maintenance becomes prohibitively expensive can be a good option; unfortunately we have to wait now <argh>. But we are getting close. I am glad we have had the resources to keep the vehicles going during our bk. Now, when we have the next major repair on the 2005 (possibly catalytic converter, since we need to do an emissions test in 2022 for it to remain legal), we need to make a decision: fix, or buy... unless we have a good option to buy beforehand.
When we filed back in 2017, our attorney said, 'You *should have* bought a replacement vehicle before you filed'. So, we are thinking, well, thanks for that now-historical, now-unhelpful advice. Perhaps we should have delayed the bk filing til we bought a car first but, we didn't know. Anyway, it's almost over and done with fortunately.