Just made the monthly payment; 5 payments remaining

[Zombie13]

Almost there. Just looking forward to getting this done. In prior years the trustee would request the tax return and latest pay stub in mid-late July. That did not happen this year so it appears they are satisfied with the modified terms from last year, in which they get an additional $5K or so for unsecured creditors. Even if they did want more money our net income has remained flat since last year's modified plan agreement. Funny thing... I get to a special age and BOOM! My life insurance rate triples. Wow, nice. It's not like I decided to become a professional sky diver. So that is why our net income is the same as last year LOL! Still too young for AAA but yknow.
In the meantime we have continued to get rid of stuff: sell, donate, trash. And, prep the landscape since that requires minimal cash investment, but a lot of hard labor. I calculated, at $20 per hour for one person, 4 hours per day, 4 days per week, for 4 months (16 weeks), it would cost $5120 to pay someone to do the work I did: 4 days/week * 16 weeks * $20 = $5120. Shoveling and filtering rock and dirt... repeat... repeat... fill dirt back in, level out rock by the sidewalk. Next up is dropping grass seed, straw layer on top, and watering to keep the seeds moist to germinate (when the temperature usually hovers between 65 and 85 degrees). And, after Labor Day, a couple landscape shops put flowers and plants on significant discounts. So we may do some planting then as well.

[sophieanne]

You’ve got this!! Your countdown is so close to the end. 2022 is going to be your year ..and I’m counting down with you so we can celebrate 😀. Sounds like you’re doing a wonderful job getting your yard all fixed up. Thought any more about the next step for you and Barbisi?

[Zombie13]

Thanks sophieanne! We are still planning to sell the house and relocate to Washington state once we are done. At this point, major decisions require money, so we have to wait on those.

[justbroke]

Zombie13 so close to the finish line. I know the feeling. I dread getting back into the yard as the temps here in Florida are still brutal. Perhaps in the fall I'll get into those flower beds and also completely remove and replace the mulch.

[Zombie13]

justbroke yes indeed! I may do the same with flowers; still so hot here.

[sophieanne]

Wow..you have decided on WA state!! I believe you will love it!!!

[Zombie13]

I certainly hope so!
To add to our list of planning:
When we can (ie after the discharge, or after the close date... I get confused as to when we can do this) - we have discussed these steps. Not sure about feasibility:

1. take out 401K Loan
2. deposit funds in our credit union checking account
3. request a credit card from the credit union - our argument is, we are demonstrating liquidity (if that makes sense) by depositing the funds in the credit union account
4. Use the 401K funds, and/or credit card from the credit union (preferable) to book flight/hotel/car rental for a trip to WA to check it out
5. Use the 401K funds, and/or credit card from the credit union for home updates such as paint, carpet, hardwood floor laminate, faucets, appliances...nothing crazy.
6. NOTE: we can also use our newly available salaried income (that went to the monthly payment) for some of these as well.
The next steps are, which comes first: sell the house first, or get a job first in WA; the outcome drives our decisions after. This is the part that has me a bit anxious. But, if we sell first, we rent here temporarily. If we get a job first, we may need to negotiate an onsite start date contingent upon selling the house.
7. When we do sell the house: Pay off the 401K loan, the solar panels, and any other debt. And, consider options for purchasing a replacement vehicle (Barbisi's will be 18 years old next year... ugh). Yes it may seem painful but the whole purpose of using the 401K loan is to sell the house and leave Colorado, so it's a necessary expense that must be Paid In Full ASAP. We wanna leave? We gotta pay the price. And it will be worth it.

[shipo]

I subscribe to the "KISS" principle as often as possible; my gut tells me your plan ain't KISS.

For starters, I'm not even remotely an advocate of 401K loans; "life" happens, and such loans can be messy. Then there is the concept of trying to parley a cash deposit into unsecured credit; as a general rule, that is a non-starter, errr, unless of course you're talking about a "secured" credit card, which is a different animal entirely.

After my Chapter 13 discharge last year I didn't start smart (quite to the contrary actually), and yet I still managed to land $14,000 in unsecured credit spread across three cards within a year; had I been smart, I believe I could easily have doubled that amount. In your case I'd recommend the following:

• About six-weeks after your discharge (no need to wait for the close), start with a high-limit secured card (as close to $5,000 as you can afford), say from FNBO, U.S. Bank, or BofA.
• Once you land the secured card, wait for it to report, and then apply for a CapitalOne and/or Discover (assuming you didn't burn then in your Chapter 13) card.

As for your plans to fund the move to WA, you can either wait to obtain enough credit to fund it, or wait until you sell your house and use the proceeds for the move.

[Zombie13]

Thank you shipo. We will keep this information under advisement.

[Zombie13]

So, a few things to note.
I mentioned, we are not sure about feasibility; so perhaps the term 'plan' is misleading. "Tentative Plans" is a better phrase. Some of these are ideas; not all ideas will be implemented.
The 401K loan is a financial option we can consider. We don't love it either; but now is the time to document all options available to us, and consider the pros and cons. It is not wise to discard an idea without even considering it. Five months from now, we will have a more clear picture of our post-BK situation and can make more appropriate decisions at that time - and discard ideas that are not good solutions for our specific situation at that time.
Regarding the final move, ideally, we would get a relocation package. If that does not happen for some reason, then yes, we would have to self-fund the relocation; most likely from the home sale proceeds.
Re: the concept of parleying cash into an unsecured credit card: as I mentioned, this is just an idea - it might be a bad idea, but I simply do not know - since since Barbisi and I are brainstorming, I documented it for consideration. Since we have not discussed this with the credit union, I don't know if it is possible, nor whether we want to pursue it. Even when I initially conceived of the idea, I had strong doubts; and still do. Yes, using the funds as 'collateral' for a secured credit card would be more likely.
Re: after 6 weeks from the discharge, acquire a secured credit card - yes, this makes sense; I read your post(s) about this before. Before that date, we will have the bk-monthly-payment funds available to save up, or to use for home updates as we go, and storage space rental.

Thanks again shipo. When we get to the finish line, we will have a much better view and perspective on how to proceed. At this time, there are too many unknowns to get a clear picture.

[flashoflight]

1) Can you stop the 401k contributions beyond the match? Seems like you need the money now.
2) Can you use the newly gained 13 payment amount to fund the plane trip to WA? If your 13 payment is really big, you could fund the trip in two months.
3) Can you apply for credit now but not use any of it until after the 13? Talk to your lawyer about this one. At least in my district, I don't see the trustee doing a pull of my credit report. I also don't see any post-petition creditor coming into my docket and saying "Hi, I'm a new creditor. Just thought you should know that Mr. Trustee." Our rule is do not incur debt greater than $1000 without court permission. I'm not a fan of incurring debt except for a mortgage on your primary, but I'm a fan of collecting credit cards for future credit on a mortgage and as 1-4 week short term cash flow gap borrowing.
4) Cars are obscene expensive right now. Try to hang on to what you got even if it includes costly repairs.
5) I don't like the 401k loan idea. KISS. You don't want an extra payment. You're about to get rid of a very annoying payment. Don't add one back afterwards.

[Zombie13]

Thanks @flashoflight.
1) while reducing 401k contributions is possible, I don't think it is advisable; this would look like 'cheating the creditors', since I would increase take home pay. Basically, we have 5 payments left, and even though reducing the contributions would bring more take home pay, we don't want to 'stir the pot', so it's best left alone. We don't need that money now, either. Sure, more would be nice but again, I feel better just leaving it alone.
2) Yes, this would be possible. We need to price plane tickets, hotel, car rental, food, etc. to be sure we have the funds readily available.
3) Not advisable. We only talk with attorney if we absolutely have to. We get along fine, but it's best to deal with new credit only once we're done. We don't want to interact with the trustee either, unless absolutely necessary. And usually that is for sending the tax returns and latest pay stub. We have received, about once or twice a year, a notecard indicating, 'there have been ## negative flags on your credit report, including a bankruptcy'. We get these credit offers in the mail with outrageous interest rates, but we do not know if the trustee pulls the credit report; so it is a possibility. But again, we're not going to ask them, rather, just leave it alone.
4) Cars - we have read they are expensive, but we have not spent much time researching. During the bankruptcy we have put several thousand dollars into repairs for both vehicles. If we have another expensive repair on the 18 year old car, seems that money would be better spent on a replacement. If we put, for example, $2000 on repairs for the 18 year old car, that effectively makes a future replacement vehicle cost an additional $2000. I see your point though; theoretically, repairing an old vehicle is cheaper than a replacement vehicle, "**In the short term**". We do not plan to replace the vehicle until sometime next year; we will keep an eye on the pricing trends.
5) The 401K loan would not be an extra payment. Just as with using one or more credit cards, the intent would be to use the money to fix the house. When the house is sold, pay off the debt **Immediately**. Not in monthly installments. With a credit card, we would also pay the interest; so the home repair/update is more expensive. With the 401K loan, if there is interest, it goes back into the 401K. I will confirm this with the 401k company. Additionally: there is at least one potentially very expensive repair which we may not be able to fix with just credit cards. We got a few estimates of around $5k to replace a section of plumbing underneath the house which would require removal of the laundry room concrete. So if that needs to be done prior to the home sale, that would have to be paid for; unless we offer that as a 'reduction' in the home sale price, which I seriously doubt a buyer would go for. $5K off the home sale price amounts to a small savings in the monthly payment. Also with this 401K loan, whatever is not used for the home updates prior to sale, would be returned immediately. Credit cards are financial tools. So would be a 401K loan. The difference is, a 401K loan can be used without dealing with credit card banks, high interest rates, etc. Before we proceed with credit cards or a 401K loan, we will communicate with the 401K company to fully understand the processes.

We understand a 401K loan is not a popular option. But, if not using a 401K loan will prevent us from fixing and selling the house, then we will use the loan, sell the house, and pay off the loan immediately, so we can leave Colorado and get on with our life. And, the intent of using a loan, or a credit card, for fixing the house, is to sell the house for more than is invested. So if we spend $5k on updates, we expect to recover that investment.

Thanks!

[Barbisi]

We do appreciate every one's feedback and advice, but I feel the need to clarify some issues my husband didn't address: the imperative nature of getting out of here before it's too late!
(1) The age of the house and the potentially volatile market.
Our 46 year old home is going to require a complete overhaul in less than four or so years, meaning a possible repeat of the run down 51 year old house that brought financial ruination on us in 2017.
Also,the demand for "clean mountain living" may start to evaporate once more people understand just how often the air is polluted with ozone and local Colorado/ California wildfires and just how ridiculous home prices are, considering the lack of genuine cultural, international opportunities and the isolated and insular landscape (i.e this "outdoor sports paradise" can not compete with San Francisco, New York, Chicago, even Seattle -when did you last hear of the Colorado/Denver Opera, Ballet, or Symphony? That traveling by car takes 5-6 hours in any direction to reach the nearest major city?)
Unless your whole life is a high tech job with endless time off spent in the mountains and flying elsewhere for the mental stimulation Colorado lacks, Colorado is going to be very, very boring and empty!
If we wait even a year (or more) ,we risk more repairs and loss of home sale value as the market self-corrects.
(2) My health.
I have had three bouts of acute ankle/foot pain flareups/swelling and inability to walk and exercise consistently since this BK13 began in 2017. I was advised during the second one (in 2019) that daily stairs were detrimental to my deteriorating condition and I might need a total ankle replacement in the next five years. In mid-June I started having sharp, stabbing twinges as I walked outside on concrete and later at the gym as I worked out. I was able to get a new MRI (the third since the fall of 2017 ) and it found a piece of the talar-tarsal dome is loose in the ankle, there is a partial peroneus brevis tear and there are 4 pockets of fluid within my ankle, only one of which the cortisone shot treated : tarsal ankle joint. So, I am about to begin shock wave treatment for the entire foot. (This is costly but due to the ability to save HSA funds since my numerous PT and chiro visits allowed us to reach the deductible , we will be able to avoid paying this amount out of pocket and the bank account.)
Were I to have the two different surgeries recommended by two different foot surgeons,I might be laid up for two years or more, effectively confining me to this house and forcing me to deal with these stairs for a long, long time. I would also need to lose weight for these operations to be of any value.
My chiropractors and PTs feel with proper treatment and slow, eventual weight loss ,I can avoid these procedures for at least a few years. I believe getting away from this high, dry desert with hourly temperature fluctuations and unhealthy altitude permanently will help my entire body and lessen the massive inflammation I have to live with every day.
Since moving here in Feb. 2010, I have had more surgeries (3), more injuries (6+) and cortisone injections (3) than any where else I have ever lived combined. I ache in the winter and in the summer nearly equally, meaning I seldom feel really good.
(3) Lack of opportunities for me.
No meaningful acting, singing, VO, screenwriting classes, workshops, etc. More than half to 75% of the people I met, took classes with ,worked with on sets, etc. have relocated to various others states.
(4) No job guarantee for my husband.
(5) Zero friends or family- only indifferent or distantly polite acquaintances. In an emergency, no body would come to our aid.
He was laid off once here already (2019), and was nearly let go at his new company (2020) before being transferred to his current group.
What if he ends unemployed again while we still have to pay this hefty mortgage and solar panel lease? At least if you're unemployed and renting, it's a whole lot easier to move and get out of a rental lease than filing BK13 again to prevent foreclosure and starting the five year cycle once more.
Now I realize that after BK13 , you are supposed to stay put, slowly obtain credit and only move once the credit report no longer shows your BK13, but given the above reasons and the fact I feel like I'm in a dead end rut and I'm tired of settling and knuckling under for nothing, doesn't getting the heck out of Dodge,er Denver as soon as possible make sense?

[Barbisi]

EDIT NOTE: I did some additional comments above and got (4) and (5) slightly out of wack and I can no longer re-edit so please bear that in mind if you do read this very lengthy thesis as to why losing a little money is preferable to dying here LOL!

[flashoflight]

Looks like you guys got a good plan. Looking forward to your post five months from now celebrating the last 13 payment. Your trustee is a lot more anal than ours, that's for sure. I'm sure I get away with a lot more because they're too busy.

[Carmella]

Congrats it's the FINAL FIVE!!!! Keep making your plans for that post BK life

[Barbisi]

Thank you for the encouraging cheer, Carmella!

[Zombie13]

Thanks Carmella ! Will do!