Question Why Do Debtors Remain In the Very State They Filed After Discharge?

[Barbisi]

This is something I have never seen addressed here. Most cases of second BKs seem to involve debtors who remain in the same state after their first BK (7 or 13).
Is this just a coincidence or does staying in the same job at the same address for many more years predispose some one to a forced second BK? Or is it because maintaining the same lifestyle guarantees a repeat?
My personal theory is the circumstances which forced us into this BK13 would not have happened as they did had we been living some else and not been in Colorado and if we don't relocate we are doomed to a second BK13 just because the mortgage alone($2400 and rising) will never go down, and the surrounding housing will never be affordable or desirable. And most importantly if my husband is laid off again,as he was in 2019, we will be facing foreclosure with another BK13 as our only option. And a decent quality of life here is for me totally unobtainable. I could hardly hate this state more and staying here after obtaining a discharge just doesn't make sense to me. I desperately need to change my life and remaining here will never permit that, even when the creditors no longer control our daily financial choices and life.This climate is adversely affecting my health as well and most of my numerous doctors have recommended a more humid, milder see level climate to lessen my mysofascial joint issues.
Have any one you who weren't happy in your filing state successfully relocated with out needing to file again in your new state? And for those who stayed, did you regret your decision if you had to refile or did you feel your quality of life made a second BK worthwhile and tolerable? I don't forsee a bright future here after 2022 unless we can move else where and I am curios how others have fared when they chose to change their location.
Any shared experiences and perspectives are appreciated, but not criticisms of my viewpoint. Thank you!

[BxRcvor]

In my case, I still have my house, since it was exempt from the proceeding in FL. But more fundamentally, I still want to live in the state. Why would leaving the state help with recovering from CH7 or 13?

[Barbisi]

Thanks for the reply.
In my case living somewhere else, would lessen my medical bills (because I would feel better and thus need less chiro maintenance care) and allow us to save money on home repairs and travel again after 12 years home " confinement". Renting some where new with out any high mortgage and solar panel lease (see my other posts!) would be a dream come true. This house is costing us 40% of my husband's take home pay and I want to pursue cultural and film/VO work again which doesn't exist here.
Unlike you, BxRcvor, I don't want want to live in this state any longer and haven't since 2016, but had to file here and can't leave until our first BK13 ends (2/22).
Are you in or were you in a second BK 7/13 recently?

[justbroke]

This is something I have never seen addressed here. Most cases of second BKs seem to involve debtors who remain in the same state after their first BK (7 or 13). Is this just a coincidence or does staying in the same job at the same address for many more years predispose some one to a forced second BK? Or is it because maintaining the same lifestyle guarantees a repeat?

Most people, regardless of bankruptcy, typically stay in the same State their entire if not half their life. I never thought of the bankruptcy as offering a way to change my locale by way of changing States. Additionally, there are only 5 States that are free of personal income tax, so the choices are lower anyway. While you'll find people that love and hate Florida, I find that diversity in cultures, rural towns and farming, equestrian estates, beaches, and the many waterways a lot to offer. From Key West to Apalachicola, the only thing missing are mountains.

In the end, I think it does come down to the personal story and what ties a person to their home State. If it's not for family, then it's simply a domicile and not home.

Have any one you who weren't happy in your filing state successfully relocated with out needing to file again in your new state?

I filed twice, in the same State, but you can blame it on Uncle Sam (the IRS). They are one creditor from which you can't escape no matter where you move.

[Barbisi]

Well, jb here's some interesting info - I was born in NJ,lived in NY state, Florida (Tidesville) area , New Orleans, California (Los Angeles) and Missouri, all before I was 8 years old, and then the Rio Grande valley in Texas, Northern Louisiana, Arkansas (for college), Dallas, NH , Virginia and for the last mostly miserable 11 years Colorado. I even spent two months in Germany in a summer study abroad program!
I don't have any family left any where , and besides this BK13 ,the only reason to continue living here is my husband's job,the solar panel lease and the mortgage. So my question is since I don't have any real emotional ties here, detest the climate and marijuana culture, why not get out of here as soon as possible.
This is not my home state ,never was and certainly never will be, unless I settle and knuckle under and just accept we can't get out!
I see other transplants like us relocating all the time and I'm so envious - O why o why can't I?(as Dorothy sings in "Somewhere Over the Rainbow".) They are able to sell their homes, make a profit, change jobs and move away why can't we?
It doesn't seem fair just because we bought two houses here, and were forced into a five year BK13 as a result, that we have to live our lives out here.
I want out, and I want to live again and experience life with out any solar panel lease, mountains, marijuana worship, and a mortgage - is that really too much to ask for the remainder of my life?

[BxRcvor]

Thanks for the reply.
In my case living somewhere else, would lessen my medical bills (because I would feel better and thus need less chiro maintenance care) and allow us to save money on home repairs and travel again after 12 years home " confinement". Renting some where new with out any high mortgage and solar panel lease (see my other posts!) would be a dream come true. This house is costing us 40% of my husband's take home pay and I want to pursue cultural and film/VO work again which doesn't exist here.
Unlike you, BxRcvor, I don't want want to live in this state any longer and haven't since 2016, but had to file here and can't leave until our first BK13 ends (2/22).
Are you in or were you in a second BK 7/13 recently?

No, I've had only one BK7. And, hopefully, I'll never have another. I've learned my lesson. This one cost me much. It cost me my car, and a lot of cash. Now, I have to take "Lyft" rides wherever I need to go, or I need to rent a car for short periods. As it turns out, I'm now in the process of evaluating whether or not I need to own a car. Does the expense of owning a car (fuel, insurance, maint, etc.) exceed the cost of doing the Lyft rides or short term rentals? I dunno... it seems that when I own a car, I often "invent" the convenience of traveling to places by car that I really don't need to. With taking Lyft, I go to far fewer places and do fewer things. I don't have to travel long distance anymore like I used to. I'm already in the place I want to be for "vacation." I live there permanently, now. Over the next year, we'll see which way the expenses go. If it turns out that the "Lyft" approach is more expensive, then I'll probably lease a car for a while and then see... maybe a lease with option to buy.

[justbroke]

Well, jb here's some interesting info - I was born in NJ,lived in NY state, Florida (Tidesville) area , New Orleans, California (Los Angeles) and Missouri, all before I was 8 years old, and then the Rio Grande valley in Texas, Northern Louisiana, Arkansas (for college), Dallas, NH , Virginia and for the last mostly miserable 11 years Colorado.

I didn't grow up in a military family, but two brothers were in the military (Air Force and Army), so I understand the moving about when it's connected to service.

I see other transplants like us relocating all the time and I'm so envious - O why o why can't I?(as Dorothy sings in "Somewhere Over the Rainbow".) They are able to sell their homes, make a profit, change jobs and move away why can't we?

I think most of the folk that move here, to Florida, had some sort of retirement plan, have flexible jobs, or were able to transfer within their company. My company is flexible so I can live anywhere with a major international airport. I even had one of my direct reports who moved to Hawaii even though I told him that's a bit far for a commute to Charlotte each week.

I want out, and I want to live again and experience life with out any solar panel lease, mountains, marijuana worship, and a mortgage - is that really too much to ask for the remainder of my life?

You deserve out and I hope that you and the Zombie can get all that accomplished in the next year. If I moved again, it will likely be in Florida. In my retirement life, I want a modest boat (capable of more than just coastal cruising) and I want to explore. I would even consider moving to the Florida Keys as my forever home.

[flashoflight]

I don't feel the need to leave California. My good paying job is here. The weather is nice year-round with a tilt to the warmer side if we didn't have those stinkin wildfires. My house has a low prop 13 tax basis so it is a good candidate as a forever home.

[Barbisi]

No, I've had only one BK7. And, hopefully, I'll never have another. I've learned my lesson. This one cost me much. It cost me my car, and a lot of cash. Now, I have to take "Lyft" rides wherever I need to go, or I need to rent a car for short periods. As it turns out, I'm now in the process of evaluating whether or not I need to own a car. Does the expense of owning a car (fuel, insurance, maint, etc.) exceed the cost of doing the Lyft rides or short term rentals? I dunno... it seems that when I own a car, I often "invent" the convenience of traveling to places by car that I really don't need to. With taking Lyft, I go to far fewer places and do fewer things. I don't have to travel long distance anymore like I used to. I'm already in the place I want to be for "vacation." I live there permanently, now. Over the next year, we'll see which way the expenses go. If it turns out that the "Lyft" approach is more expensive, then I'll probably lease a car for a while and then see... maybe a lease with option to buy.

I didn't grow up in a military family, but two brothers were in the military (Air Force and Army), so I understand the moving about when it's connected to service.

I think most of the folk that move here, to Florida, had some sort of retirement plan, have flexible jobs, or were able to transfer within their company. My company is flexible so I can live anywhere with a major international airport. I even had one of my direct reports who moved to Hawaii even though I told him that's a bit far for a commute to Charlotte each week.

You deserve out and I hope that you and the Zombie can get all that accomplished in the next year. If I moved again, it will likely be in Florida. In my retirement life, I want a modest boat (capable of more than just coastal cruising) and I want to explore. I would even consider moving to the Florida Keys as my forever home.

[Barbisi]

Thanks guys,esp. jb for understanding Colorado is a terrible fit and wishing us a swift out.
I hadn't replied because of an adverse reaction to Clindamycin (a very potent antibiotic) administered during a recovery from my second bone graft on the one implant done almost two years ago. Luckily, this procedure was under the warranty the oral surgeon offered at the time of the original surgery. (I.e. no out of pocket cost to us, a rare break amid so much financial grifting.)
I am so sick of nearly constant and usually expensive health issues that will never end here.
And as flashoflight mentioned in his post, wildfires are now a permanent and deadly fixture of life here as well! Air quality is often at a dangerous low level. People don't care as long as they can ski, climb mountains and smoke their precious marijuana.
But I'm tired of settling for a simply awful quality of life and cheerfully knuckling under - clap for Colorado, says the world, while I say ___________ Colorado! (no offense to the wonderful BK community who allow frequent ranting, just me expressing my forever feelings towards the state I am forced to live in until (at least ) 2022.

[justbroke]

I say that I love visiting Colorado. I just couldn't leave there. Boulder-Denver is way too expensive. I mean, Colorado has a mean housing cost of, let's just call it, $400K. Florida is just shy of $250K. But, the Florida housing market is going through another boom! Just 5 years back, in 2015, the Florida medium home price was $175K!

Massachusetts is at $480K (median), and California is $555K. Of course Massachusetts and California have salaries to help compensate for the differences, but... wow!

I just saw a nice small home in New England that someone bought in 1975 for $45,000. It's on the market for $450,000.

[shipo]

I say that I love visiting Colorado. I just couldn't leave there. Boulder-Denver is way too expensive. I mean, Colorado has a mean housing cost of, let's just call it, $400K. Florida is just shy of $250K. But, the Florida housing market is going through another boom! Just 5 years back, in 2015, the Florida medium home price was $175K!

Massachusetts is at $480K (median), and California is $555K. Of course Massachusetts and California have salaries to help compensate for the differences, but... wow!

I just saw a nice small home in New England that someone bought in 1975 for $45,000. It's on the market for $450,000.

LOL, living in New Hamster we have the worst of both worlds (i.e. high housing costs and low income levels); the property values up here are driven by the Boston market 40 miles to our south, but "because New Hampshire", our state-wide median income is only $76,768. Not really optimal.

[justbroke]

New Hamster! Love it! I was "doing research" in Cambridge, I found that the number of people from Boston metro that lived in southern New Hamster was astounding. The housing and taxes in Massachusetts are such a strain on one's wallet, that people will tell you that "the best place to live in Boston, is New Hampshire."

I paid $1,020/month for a 1-bedroom apartment back in the 1990s. Now that same 1-bedroom is renting for $2,500-$3,300/month. Ridiculous! You know what I can get in Florida for that?

[shipo]

LOL, yeah, the folks working in Boston, and making Boston money, live pretty well here in New Hamster. I was lucky in that my company, which before COVID was located in Concord, NH, had to buy me away from Boston where I was working at the time, however, my wife wasn't so fortunate. In her case, had she worked literally five miles south, over the state line into Massachusetts, would have made literally 50% more from the same company. Really annoying.

The only silver lining is, since my wife up and quit back in September, and since my company decided working from home was going so well, they've opted to close our office building and sell it, we can live pretty much anywhere. This of course leads to all manner of discussions between us; left to my own devices, I'd move one to two-hundred miles north, she'd move eight-hundred miles south.

[Barbisi]

Shipo, I lived for a little over 3 years in Nashua, NH, so I know about the high COL there and the relative LIL. That is why we left LOL!
However you have close proximity to so many other states and Canada(!) and have a highly literate population who are well read, speak French and German (I belonged to excellent international language groups) and have easy access to the kind of culture I prefer - classical music, international film, book readings. And the continental climate ,while cold and humid , offers beautiful summers and autumns and most importantly lies at sea level (i.e. no high and dry altitude that causes severe skin cancer and constant body pain unless you drink gallons of water (which I do!) and are anorexic (below 100lb!) Fat or muscular people (like me!) have complex health issues here and often decide to leave and of course can because BK13 and its aftermath don't control their life!
By contrast Colorado is 100% about outdoor activities - mountain climbing , skiing, etc. and a heavy dose of marijuana use , dog parks and brew pubs (all interests I never shared and never will!)
NH has a strong skiing culture ,but not to the exclusion of the world and we found many people who cherished felines and appreciated wine!
JB, I recall you expressing a fondness for Colorado before, but I doubt you've spent as much time here as I've had to -11 years straight with no vacation, no get-a-way, no break ,just 365 days times 11+ years. Let me ask you this - would you be happy with that and would you be willing to stay the rest of your life in the same unending situation while others traveled, lived somewhere else where they felt physically better, pursued a career or hobbies and interests they loved and were satisfied with their lives?
But then of course I am the only person who realized too late as everything changed around them, that they should have left and not doomed themselves to BK13 by staying and buying two ill advised houses. I understand none of you ended up in BK13 because you chose to stay in the wrong state and buy a dreadful investor house that you simply couldn't afford to fix up and make comfortably livable! Normally, BK13 only happens to people to live huge on CCs , take lavish trips to exotic destinations and spas, buy fancy cars or tragically contract terminal cancer or are victims of nefarious lawsuits,and that is not what happened to us, not yet!
My next Colorado BK13 if we can't exit this nightmare will probably be to stave off foreclosure,(because we can't pay the mortgage when maybe my husband is laid off a second time here or worse dies here) or we end up with $$$$$$ of medical bills because one of us ends up dying here from some horrible disease!) There is no future here besides misery, poverty and death.
And Colorado is now almost as expensive as NH, Mass., California.,etc, and there are carloads of people moving here every day with clogged highways and hourly fatal car accidents involving blessed drug use. Houses are now valued at more than $500+ and high tech jobs abound at LIL.
Tell me why we shouldn't sell out and leave?