What to do when your health fails you?

[Scottowl]

Here I am. 62 years 7 months, in a 60 month plan with 45 months to go. I will be done 3 months before I reach FRA.

One problem with that cropped up last Friday at the doctors office while reviewing my annual blood testing.
There is the matter of my A1C being 10.4. I have all the symptoms, right down to blisters on my feet that turned black. I can describe other fun filled activities, but would rather not.

Diabetes itself is serious, but there are possible complications, according to the blood work. Areas in question are the bladder, liver and prostrate.

I don't have full information yet; I have been sent for more testing and will learn more in 10 days.

Of course I have been thinking the worst because I am so good at that. While the only new reality is that I now shoot myself up with insulin every day, that doesn't keep my mind from racing to its own conclusion.

I am concerned with my Ch 13 case in the event I will not be able to keep working the next 4 years.

If my income drops below the median level, can I convert from 5 to 3 years?
Can I convert to Ch 7 and let all secured property go? I do have back taxes to deal with separately.
What is the definition of hardship discharge?
Are there other ways I don't know about to address my circumstance?

I don't want to bum anyone out about this, and I know this isn't a medical forum. It would be easier for me to deal with if I had anyone in my day to day life.

Life. It sure can come up with kool ways to kick you in the cajones when you aren't looking.

[Franco]

I understand the feeling of not having anyone there for you, I'm all alone here in Arizona, and my immediate family died in my 20's and early 30's. Sure my Brother is in NY State 2600 miles away, but he has his own struggles with his wife and child and not making much money.

Now I can't answer much because my knowledge is not too extensive on the subject. I do believe you can convert to a Chapter 7 and lose most of your secured property. The taxes, well I'm pretty sure you will have to pay that back, or maybe the IRS can setup a payment plan?

I'm going to be 40 years old in a few months, and when I got my Covid test two months ago I was woken up to something I never knew about myself. My blood pressure was 192 over 130! Yes I'm 330lbs but I always felt like a strong Bull. I used to drink WAY too much, and over the years the weight and alcohol snuck up on me. Currently I'm trying to lose weight, cut out alcohol. We'll see where it goes.

Sorry to hear about your situation, all I can say is try and look at the good things in life, that's what keeps me going.

[Barbisi]

Scottowl, first I'd like to say, I'm so sorry you have to face these medical issues so early in your BK13! I hope your very reasonable fears aren't realized and that you are able to continue working so you can finish this most unpleasant of all worst case financial scenarios.
Every time I read some one boasting about how "wonderful" Bk13 is , and how BK13 is the "best thing that ever happened" to them, I think about how awful BK13 really is when you have chronic conditions and need an elective surgery (as I did) or are faced with potentially dire medical conditions suddenly revealing themselves and maybe preventing completion of the Plan to freedom (as you may be faced with!). I think most debtors like to pretend that serious and life threatening situations simply can't happen to them and so by ignoring our posts,they'll sail through BK13 and beyond!
Of course, life doesn't work like that and so the unluckiest amongst us, have to face these scary realities!
In my case, my surgery actually exceeded my expectations - no vocal cord damage from the three-hour full throat anesthesia, relatively easy recovery (very little pain or side effects) so far (knock on wood!) Also, the entire bill appears to to be under 2K and with the payment plan I was able to set up before the surgery itself, and with the maximum HSA contributions, I believe we will be able to pay this off by April 2021, unless something unforeseen happens!
Franco, I hope you can avoid BP medicines by exercising, losing weight ,and eating better and healthier foods !
Scottowl, best wishes on managing your diabetes, feeling better and hopefully being able to continue working! Hang in there !
Good luck to you both!

[Franco]

Kind words for sure! Thank You Barbisi!

[Scottowl]

Well Franco, I too drank my and about 10 other guys share in my lifetime.
I did quit when I filed BK last September, but I have not been able to totally stop. I haven't been falling down drunk for quite a few years, if that gets me a consolation prize! If you put in the work you will get where you want to be.
Barbsi, I sometimes get motion sickness following along the roller coaster your case is! What is it Murphy says? Things will break, and at the worst possible time.
For me, BK was a positive, only because I had money management problems. Right now? It's adding to my stress level.

I really wonder if the 5 year plan can be reduced to 3 if ones income is reduced to under the number in the means test.
I thought I read something in the old forum about a hardship discharge as well.

The secured items in my plan are house and 2 vehicles. It would not be the end of my world to let all 3 go back right now.

[Carmella]

Scottowl I always think of you and wonder how you are doing. I am glad you are posting, but sorry to hear about the Diabetes. While there can be complications people can live quite well with it also. I hope you are able to adjust to some of the medical issues and it stablizes. I can't answer the questions about what to do with the BK if you can't work, but I am sure there is some sort of escape clause even if it's the Chapter 7 which I think would probably be the most unsettling (for me personally). While it's good to be prepared for the worst, try not to think it will only be the worst. The doctor probably put some fear into you so you know it's serious and you have to make changes. I work in health care so I know some of the general issues of diabetes. My cousin has had juvenile (type 1) and he now has complications once he hit his 50's. I am assuming yours is Type II adult onset which has a bit of a different course.

Focus on healthy changes and do your best that's all you can do. And this is another reason to stay off the booze/sugar. I am sure you know that and I am not saying this to preach to you. I just want to say do your best make healthy changes and see where it goes. Keep coming back to this forum to let us know how you are doing with BK as well as your health.

Is there anyone you can talk to through support groups for either gambling or alcohol? I imagine in person support groups are scarce with Covid.
Please don't be too harsh on yourself. I think a lot of us think the worst when we find out something "bad."


Franco I have high blood pressure also, have been on meds. I never felt any ill effects from it. Back in the 70's/80's it was referred to as the "silent killer." It's good you found out and can get it under control. I am overweight and keep trying, have lost weight in the past and just need to get back in the swing now that I have less/different life stressors. I honestly think the monetary stress was the worst stress with having a terrible job (in the past) running a close second.


Barbisi your situation is one of those what seemed a lot worse than it ended up to be. I think that's very good to think about and how common it is to worry about the worst case scenario. I agree that BK is no walk in the park and not the "best thing," but I think it is a very good thing for me as there was no way out of the cash problem and I accept the ups and downs as kind of a penance even though I should not since we are paying back 100%. Maybe penance is the wrong word it's more of a consequence of our poor management of what life threw at us--since is it a combo of life events out of our control and our poor management in what we could control! I have that fear way back in the furthest corner of my mind what would we do if something disabled me or my husband or if we lost the job, etc But I keep it tucked away and think if something really happens that is the time to think more about it without obsessing about the worst case scenario.

[Scottowl]

Well Carmella, I'm going in for an ultrasound in the morning. I don't know specifically what they are looking at, other than my abdomen. I guess I shouldn't worry, but this isn't my normal annual blood test.

[Barbisi]

Scottowl, I hope your ultrasound went well and nothing ominous was discovered.Keep us posted!
You are so right about our roller coaster BK13 ride! It has been more than three and a half years of uncertainty and near-constant and unending stress -as some one once said, "it's always something!" (And of course, no one can blame me for being sick of it and ready to really live life again far away from many bitter memories.)
Carmella , you too are right about my surgery going much better than it initially appeared and for that I am grateful, but I can't help worrying about what may still come our way before 2022 liberation . I so look forward to being able leave Colorado forever. Maybe once your BK13 is behind you , your BP will return to a normal range.

[Carmella]

Scottowl I hope the ultrasound went ok. I do understand that BK is stressful and anything can happen.

One day the furnace kept trying to rev up and didn't work. I shut it down for a day and then it worked the next day. I feel like we are on borrowed time. My husband's car is sitting in the driveway NOT fixed yet. The tree by our garage, the tree that hit the garage early this year and the insurance company wouldn't remove the whole tree even though it was obviously rotting. Well, the rest of the tree came down on Sunday. I am so happy it did NOT hit my neighbor's fence. I need to call the insurance company. I procrastinated. The tree smashed our fence in the backyard which I can live with since it's a 23 yr old fence we wanted to get rid of anyway. My dryer is on it's last leg making funny noises. There's always something. Not to mention the Covid threat since I work in a nursing home. At least I get tested for free twice a week. But if I am ever positive myself and my husband will be out of work for a minimum of 2 weeks even if we are not sick. And we aren't getting any younger. My husband never sees a doctor, sometimes I worry he's a ticking time bomb especially after a friend lost her "I don't need to see a doctor" husband last year, he was younger than my husband. I have high blood pressure and who knows anything can happen. I have had three co-workers with cancer. One older, one younger and one close to my age.

We never know, we just need to do our best and try not to worry that the worst case scenario is going to happen. And if anything happens take it one day at a time.

[Barbisi]

Well, in our case the furnace is still working, but we bought one new space heater and already had one as a backup from a while back (i.e.before BK13). We finally got the swamp cooler covered today and were told a new one would cost $4200 (We think the motor is about to go! ) The sprinklers aren't working perfectly and our very large yard is overdo for areation. We have already been "warned "about the $4500 laundry room pipe repair.
My husband has to go for a colonoscopy next week -hopefully no cancer! He has some unhealthy readings due to his diet (and genetics!) and some high BP readings but he wants to try and eat better and lose some weight. I think avoiding BP medicine at a one mile altitude is the wisest choice for now. (I know a Colorado woman (who moved to NM earlier this year) with severe bouts of gout and many ER visits only because her BP medicine was not the correct dose . We need to avoid side effects like that while we are struggling to make it through BK13 and now an almost total Covid-19 lock down, just implemented this week to combat the surging new numbers.
Hopefully, the vaccine will be distributed soon and no front line workers will be infected before then.

[Scottowl]

Kinda good, kinda bad news from my doctor.
My PSA was normal.
The ultrasound showed gallstones and fatty deposits on my liver.
He would like to remove my gall bladder. I would like for him to not do that.
AS far as the liver, I first have to get the high triglycerides under control, the the blood glucose.

[shipo]

Six years ago my wife was diagnosed with "Fatty Liver Disease", an inflamed gall bladder and gall stones. She did a lot of research and ended up going down the path of using a homeopathic "gall bladder flush"; the process isn't pleasant, but it sure as hell beats having your gall bladder removed. If I recall correctly, she did it, then repeated the process three months later, six months after that, and then once more a year later. She's been good to go since.

[Barbisi]

Well, when I was quite young (and in college,in fact ) I was diagnosed with two gallstones and had a laparoscopic gallbladder removal and never had any side effects or complications whatsoever. I don't recall having any diagnosis of fatty liver. Maybe you can have a diseased gallbladder with out the liver being involved.
I think your insurance coverage may dictate what your next steps may be. If you have very good coverage, and can tolerate the surgery , you may be better off to just remove the comprised organ .
I tried homeopathic routes with the uterine fibroids and nothing worked and I could no longer live with the daily problems they entailed. So I had a major three hour surgery in the middle of a pandemic!
I think you may need a second opinion and need to do a lot of research. Let your symptoms be your guide. My now deceased mother had her gallbladder removed at an advanced age and did remarkably well. Just don't do anything rash and take your time -figure out what you can afford financially and physically .
Best of luck on finding the right resolution for your situation, Scottowl -don't give up and continue hanging in there!

[sophieanne]

I had my gallbladder removed laparoscopically and there were no after effects or problems. What is the concern about doing it?

[shipo]

The issue with having a gall bladder removed is your body cannot properly meter out bile which helps in digesting lipid molecules which do not dissolve in water, including fatty acids, waxes, and fat-soluble vitamins. As I remember it from when she had her issue, the side-effects of not being able to digest fats and such can, over time, result in high cholesterol and arterial plaque. Granted it has been a while since I looked it all up, but the gall bladder does in fact serve a function and having it removed is not exactly a trivial matter.