When Trustee makes mistake... HELP!!!

[Witchywitch]

So all of you knew that we were confirmed.

The confirmation wording was like this "debtors would pay 1234 amount for period of 567 months plus the 8910 amount "paid to date".

Now I was trying to pay our monthly payment but " 8910 amount paid to date" was the amount I need to pay in the trustee website instead that 1234 amount to be paid for 567 months.

I also look up NDC and the total plan amount was actually my "amount paid to date" plus "the amount we need to pay multiplied by xx months".

They are also actually wrong because they are missing another payment on their computation. Only 8 months of our payment was included in the amount paid to date and not 9 months.

I e-mailed my lawyer hopefully I would get a response soon.

What would I do?

Thank you!

[shipo]

Okay, I'm confused, 567 months equates to 47 year and 3 months. Did I misread your post?

[Witchywitch]

Okay, I'm confused, 567 months equates to 47 year and 3 months. Did I misread your post?

I am sorry. I am just throwing faux numbers. I did the numbers 1-10 in my post

We are in 5 year payment plan.

[justbroke]

The Trustee's report may be lagging. Even the websites, 13 Network and the notorious (?) National Data Center (NDC), can be behind in what the Trustee has received. They -- the Chapter 13 Trustees -- usually have their own accounting system and may be using 13 network, just the NDC, or both.

Please remember that the Order of Confirmation is usually written by the Trustee weeks in advance and submitted to the court for signature. Think of it as a "proposed" Order of Confirmation (which is what it is until the court signs it). So, it could sit there for a few weeks before the clerks send it to chambers for electronic signature.

If you're using the NDC, then check the last payment date. If it's earlier than your last payment, then they haven't caught up with updating NDC (or 13 Network or whatever they use).

[Witchywitch]

The Trustee's report may be lagging. Even the websites, 13 Network and the notorious (?) National Data Center (NDC), can be behind in what the Trustee has received. They -- the Chapter 13 Trustees -- usually have their own accounting system and may be using 13 network, just the NDC, or both.

Please remember that the Order of Confirmation is usually written by the Trustee weeks in advance and submitted to the court for signature. Think of it as a "proposed" Order of Confirmation (which is what it is until the court signs it). So, it could sit there for a few weeks before the clerks send it to chambers for electronic signature.

If you're using the NDC, then check the last payment date. If it's earlier than your last payment, then they haven't caught up with updating NDC (or 13 Network or whatever they use).

Not just that 1 payment though. Our payment is the beginning of the month but the amount in trustee website that we have to pay was the "amount we paid" already. It is not the amount of our monthly as payment as per the confirmation.

Now how can we pay the trustee if they have the incorrect amount to pay in their website? We can't edit it to match what we have to pay.

Thanks!

[justbroke]

You should be paying what is in your order of confirmation. I'm saying that the website is really for the Trustees and the creditors. I'll reiterate that I tell everyone not to use the numbers on those sites to manage their case. I like to tell my friends here on BKForum that NDC and 13Network are good to see what checks the Trustee has mailed out and to "generally" get a feel for what is happening. When it comes to the Chapter 13 plan payment and claims, only the confirmed (or modified) plan should be look to for guidance.

I'm sorry if that's confusing, but that has always been the case. Also look to your attorney or your confirmed plan as to what you should be paying. Never use the NDC or 13Network as the definitive answer. At the end of the day -- and at the end of your payback period -- the only thing that matters are the numbers on your confirmed (or modified) plan.

[Witchywitch]

You should be paying what is in your order of confirmation. I'm saying that the website is really for the Trustees and the creditors. I'll reiterate that I tell everyone not to use the numbers on those sites to manage their case. I like to tell my friends here on BKForum that NDC and 13Network are good to see what checks the Trustee has mailed out and to "generally" get a feel for what is happening. When it comes to the Chapter 13 plan payment and claims, only the confirmed (or modified) plan should be look to for guidance.

I'm sorry if that's confusing, but that has always been the case. Also look to your attorney or your confirmed plan as to what you should be paying. Never use the NDC or 13Network as the definitive answer. At the end of the day -- and at the end of your payback period -- the only thing that matters are the numbers on your confirmed (or modified) plan.

Yes. I was actually surprised because we pay online on the trustee website.

I called them and they fixed it. My lawyer surprisingly answered but when I responded and asked where did they get the figure (amount of monthly payment) because we did not see the schedule, I heard crickets again.

I am getting really annoyed. I deserve to see how did they come up with the number.

[justbroke]

The calculation of the number should be a combination of your Means Test, Schedule I, Schedule J and what is "finalized" in your Order Confirming Chapter 13 Plan. Those are the only things that matter. What is listed on the NDC or 13Network sites is not controlling. While it is nice when it is mostly accurate, or up to date, the websites are not what needs to be accurate.

As for your monthly payment, your attorney should be and must be able to explain that number. It is a combination of those 4 "documents" that I just listed. If you don't understand the number, arrange to have a phone appointment with the attorney to explain the final amount paid to the Trustee monthly. If they can't get down to why $10 here or there is the difference, do have them explain your "disposable monthly income" calculation and your overall payment to the Trustee. That overall payment includes your secured debt payments (car(s) and home to the extent that they are paid "through" the plan), your remaining attorney debt that's in the plan, the Trustee percentage, and finally your disposable monthly income (DMI).

Many times people are surprised by the final payment but may not realize those other items (I listed) are included in that payment. Not all districts require the "secured" debt to be paid through the plan, but in those that require that payment, this means that all your major bills (home, car) are being paid by the Trustee and through the plan.

I hope that makes sense, and I hope you're able to sit down with your attorney or their office to explain those final 4 numbers (secured debt, attorney debt, Trustee fee, and DMI).

[Witchywitch]

The calculation of the number should be a combination of your Means Test, Schedule I, Schedule J and what is "finalized" in your Order Confirming Chapter 13 Plan. Those are the only things that matter. What is listed on the NDC or 13Network sites is not controlling. While it is nice when it is mostly accurate, or up to date, the websites are not what needs to be accurate.

As for your monthly payment, your attorney should be and must be able to explain that number. It is a combination of those 4 "documents" that I just listed. If you don't understand the number, arrange to have a phone appointment with the attorney to explain the final amount paid to the Trustee monthly. If they can't get down to why $10 here or there is the difference, do have them explain your "disposable monthly income" calculation and your overall payment to the Trustee. That overall payment includes your secured debt payments (car(s) and home to the extent that they are paid "through" the plan), your remaining attorney debt that's in the plan, the Trustee percentage, and finally your disposable monthly income (DMI).

Many times people are surprised by the final payment but may not realize those other items (I listed) are included in that payment. Not all districts require the "secured" debt to be paid through the plan, but in those that require that payment, this means that all your major bills (home, car) are being paid by the Trustee and through the plan.

I hope that makes sense, and I hope you're able to sit down with your attorney or their office to explain those final 4 numbers (secured debt, attorney debt, Trustee fee, and DMI).

Thank you!

Everytime I asked them how did they come up with the number, I hear crickets.

I didn't see the revised schedule. Even if I would add the "rent" in question and the monthly payment for the car we just paid off, it is still few hundreds difference. Those were the only two "objections" from the trustee so I don't know how on earth did they come up with higher number since I have a copy of the schedules we initially submitted.

Our other car payment isn't paid by the trustee. It is out of the plan. Not sure about my student loans though.

[Witchywitch]

Also in NDC webpage under disbursement "Percentage to Unsecured is 100%. Does that mean we are in 100% payment plan?

I am so confused about percentage.

Thank you!

[justbroke]

For the NDC, I say do not look at that percentage. It shouldn't matter to anyone. If you're in a 100% plan you would know tht you're in a 100% plan because no one would really be talking about "disposable" monthly income (DMI).

My NDC said 100% and I was maybe 2%.

[Witchywitch]

For the NDC, I say do not look at that percentage. It shouldn't matter to anyone. If you're in a 100% plan you would know tht you're in a 100% plan because no one would really be talking about "disposable" monthly income (DMI).

My NDC said 100% and I was maybe 2%.

Ok. I still have a lot to learn since my lawyer does not communicate. I do not know what percentage is our plan.

Also, I was looking at NDC website. It looks like some are duplicate claims. The original creditor and some debt collection agency filed for the same debt. I know because they actually sent us a letter that they are transferring the debt to the debt collection agency after we filed BK13.

There is also a claim for our first vehicle which the trustee paid but we already paid that off.

I am all sorts of confused.

[NoMoney30]

There is a document you should have had to sign. Mine is called "chapter 13 plan and related motions". There is a section in it that says what your percentage is. Mine is section 5. Unsecured Claims and it says: Allowed non-priority unsecured claims shall be paid pro rata from any distribution
remaining after disbursement to allowed secured and priority claims. Estimated distribution is
approximately 61 %. You can also take the total amount you owe on the BK and divide it by the total amount of what your debt was to see if its the same.

[justbroke]

The bottom line is to not worry about the "percentage" and only concentrate on what is known as the Plan Base. That is the amount that a debtor is expected to pay over the life of the plan. Unless the debtor is in a 100% plan, worrying about the percentage doesn't gain anything. It's the base plan amount that is controlling. That amount could increase or decrease based on several factors. Usually, it may only increase due to the surrender of tax refunds. It "could" decrease if there was a motion to modify due to change in financial circumstances.