NEW JOB!! So many questions!

[kmccoleman]

Hey everyone,

So I'm almost a full year into my five year Chapter 13 plan but I'm about to start a new job!! I went on a TON of interviews but I finally got word that my background and conflict checks were clear and I'm starting a position that will of course come with more money. I know that will likely mean the Trustee will want to adjust my plan to accommodate the additional income BUT I wanted to at minimum get through my probationary period before they hit me with a wage order. In my District, I think they are mandatory but I won't be working in the same state (I live and work in MD now but I'll be working in DC now) and I didn't know the rules regarding voluntary payments until I at the very least can get a few paychecks in before they start demanding money be withdrawn from my paycheck.

I'll be calling my bankruptcy attorney for more detail on what needs to be filed to try and at the very least hold off the Trustee until I get one or a few paychecks. Any advice would be greatly appreciated

[shipo]

I would definitely keep your lawyer updated on your status so he/she can give you feedback on your next steps.

[kmccoleman]

shipo I did give her a call. She's not the most "hands on" person. Even during my bankruptcy. But she said once the payments stopped the Trustee would request the order and my prior employer would send the notice I didn't work there anymore. Then he would call her and she would call me with the new information. But she's in the know and she said it won't happen for a month or more if that. I do know my employer now just sent my payment off for March so that'll keep him at bay until April or May at the least. She did warn me that the Trustee will likely request an increase in my plan payment with the jump in salary (about $25K more than I'm making now) which I assumed. Just means I'll be done sooner

[justbroke]

Hopefully your expenses increased as well, so you'll likely file a new Schedule I/J. Well, I didn't mean "hopefully" your expense increased. I meant to write that hopefully you are including any increase in expenses and will file a new Schedule I/J!

;)

[sophieanne]

kmccoleman - most important, CONGRATULATIONS on your new job!!!! Sounds like a good opportunity for you. Second sounds like you've made the call to your attorney and things should fall into place. Good luck and enjoy the new job!

[shipo]

I agree with everybody else, Congratulations (forgot to say that earlier). I might also be inclined to ping the Trustee directly and ask for a mailing address so you can send a payment to assure no payments are missed.

[kmccoleman]

justbroke honestly, I won't know what my expenses will increase to until I actually start the job. I'm actually worried because my current employer is already letting them know my last date of employ and what they have garnished for the month of March. I'm concerned about having a mandatory wage order on the books and I haven't even finished my probationary period. I'll owe about $300 additional for the month of March (they pull from my biweekly paycheck) so I don't know what will happen for April. It's a new employer so I'm concerned a garnishment in the first 90 days will doom me. My attorney is zero help. She said "that's how they do it and wage orders are mandatory" which I think is just her way of not wanting to file anything to at least allow me to make voluntary payments until my 90 days is up. Should I contact the Trustee myself? Am I allowed since I technically still have a lawyer on paper?

[kmccoleman]

shipo I already have the address. Up until my plan was confirmed back in October, I sent my payments in on my own. Once it was confirmed, a wage order went into place. I didn't even know it was coming, my lawyer never warned me. So I just dealt with it and just gave my current employer warning it was coming. They then started pulling from my paychecks. I just don't want them to pull and this be a reason to let me go before I even start. So I'm worried about that if nothing else.

[kmccoleman]

sophieanne THANK YOU! My "attorney" is fairly worthless in strategies to avoid being involuntarily garnished. The firm I'm going to work versus the one I work for now are like night and day. I'm going to a fairly large firm with hundreds of locations throughout the country versus the one I currently am at which is fairly small and a "Mom and Pop" shop. But I don't know the policy as it applies during your first 90 days and having a wage order put in place as soon as you start. My attorney seems to think it'll take a bit of time for the Trustee to request that information from her and it won't be "instant" but again my concern is preserving the new job I'm getting and not getting fired because of a wage order that could have been voluntary for at least a little while.

[justbroke]

Employers deal with wage orders all the time. The "wage deduction order" in bankruptcy is actually not a garnishment. It's "technically" voluntary but most Chapter 13 Trustees, or their district, require them in order to be in compliance with the Trustee's orders under 11 USC 521 (duties of debtor). There's nothing specific in section 521, but the courts and Trustees lean heavily on the phrase "cooperate with the trustee as necessary to enable the trustee to perform the trustee’s duties..." (emphasis added is mine) They take that to mean that you have to help the Trustee help themselves! It's so vague! (The theory is that the court can condition the confirmation on there being a wage deduction order.)

Anyhow, any large employer will understand wage orders because there are many people that pay child support, alimony, and other involuntary but "normal" (mandatory) payroll deductions. The problem for smaller employers, who do everything manually and don't use a payroll service, is that performing the payroll deductions can be tedious. However for the majority of employers, even my small business, payroll deductions and orders are easy because it's a simple addition into the payroll system (think services like ADP).

[sophieanne]

kmccoleman - Did you ask your attorney if he would try and ask your trustee if you could make your own payments? My trustee wanted auto payments but if you could give a good reason why they should allow you to pay yourself, they would allow it, with the understanding if you were late even once, a wage order would go in place. My trustee's office was different than a lot of others. Although I had an attorney, the trustee's office told me, if I had any questions or concerns, please don't hesitate to call. I know others will not agree with me, but I don't see any harm in trying to call their office if your attorney won't ask the question for you. The best that can happen is they answer your question, the worst is they tell you to contact your attorney. I think your concern, is more than reasonable.

[kmccoleman]

justbroke my firm uses ADP for their payroll now, however, they have screwed up in the past so I think they put in a manual request everytime I get paid to deduct that amount. I'm actually trying to see if a deduction has to be mandatory in the State of Maryland. I would prefer to not have be one of the many issues I have to deal with in my first 90 days of a new job if possible.

[justbroke]

My Trustee allowed you to pay one of three ways; a.) automatic debit from a checking account, b.) manual payments sent to the dreaded Lock Box in Tennessee, or c.) a wage deduction order (WDO). I don't see any reason why Chapter 13 Trustees shouldn't allow a.) and b.) when the debtor doesn't miss any payments. I suppose some Chapter 13 Trustees have been burned too many times and want the WDO.

[kmccoleman]

sophieanne my attorney is worthless. I asked every way you can ask. I asked if I could temporarily pay it myself to avoid a wage order. I asked if they could autodebit from my account. I asked it a few different ways and I still got the same answer "that's just how they do it in Maryland." I think she's full of it but I don't know the rules as it pertains to contacting the Trustee if you have counsel on file. The worst he could say is no but my future employer already knows about my bankruptcy. I tried to offer full disclosure prior to the background check on what might be found in my civil records. They seemed to be fine with it but I don't know what if any affect it would have once I started working there.

[justbroke]

Yes, it's up to the District and/or the individual Trustee. Luckily both my District and my Trustee allow this. My first Chapter 13 Trustee only allowed wage deduction orders. My second Chapter 13 Trustee had a much better system in place and allowed all 3 options.