Chapter 13 to Chapter 7

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

Anyone got the blues? Like I do? I'm waiting for confirmation of my payment plan for Ch13. I've already been through the 341 meeting and the trustee didn't like what my lawyer had proposed.

We are still in the "gray area," of the new law, as I keep hearing

My problem is I have 2 full time jobs, which threw me over the single median income range. The Median Test, shows I have no disposable income, my real life budget shows I do. My lawyer said that if I quit one job I can beat the system and file for Chapter 7.

Not so fast .. I have much to think about, I don't exactly want to file Ch7, but I dont want to have to pay the creditors back using one of my full time jobs, what fun is that! Oh, I'm such a loser!

Catchmeifyoucan

[anonymuse]

This isn't a choice on what one **wants** to do--it's not a personal choice here. Everyone wants to win the lottery and payoff all of their debts to start over fresh, but that isn't going to happen either.

The laws are based on whether or not you have enough disposable income and whether or not your have non-exempt assets (over simplified, but I'm sure you get the point.)

Unfortunately, since you've already filed, you're kind of stuck (sorry!) If you worked 2 jobs before, unfortunately, the trustee will expect you to continue working 2 jobs. If you got ill or injured and could only work 1 job or had been fired/surplussed at one job prior to the 341 meeting, you would have had something to say when they asked if you had any anticipated changes in your income.

I believe that quitting one job could be viewed as abuse (although I personally can't see how someone can maintain 2 fulltime years for a 5 year plan.) Trustees are supposed to see if a plan is feasible and you'd think that they would take in consideration the number of hours worked, but instead they're only looking at $$$.

How long have you been working 2 jobs?

And, you're not a loser, you're just in a temporary rut and we've all made plenty of mistakes around here.

Hopefully, Brett Weiss, the lawyer, will chime in here.

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

Wow

Some "positive," feedback, that makes me happy, I guess

I've been working 2ft jobs for the past 10 years. I last filed in the early 90's a ch7. Had nothing to do with gambling whatsoever, I was just young, dumb, and stupid .. a spend thrift.

Well, I can't cut a long story short. So this may be lengthy, but I'll try:

All my debts are unsecured. But now I had to accumulate one secured debt, my honda got flooded so I was able to get myself into a new car just before I filed. And my car new secured debt is "safe," just as long as I make my payments on time. I've since filed (july 24th) to be exact. (i got a sonata by the way - and the hyundai dealer sent me a notice that i filed and said just make your payments on time

Well, with my 2ft jobs I'm well over the single state median income of 43k .. I'm about 60k with the 2ft. If I kept one job, I fall below. (by the way im filing in the eastern state of virginia)

The Median Test, shows I have no disposable income, my real life budget shows I do! My lawyer proposed a $250plan, the trustee sees i can pay back estimated $800 plan. (THATS MY 2nd job practically!) I know thats where I fall into the "gray area," of the new law. I think the judge is going to order me to pay back $800 a month, my lawyer is going to argue "the law is the law, it means what is says and should state what it means," something like that, I dont see this passing through the judge, they see what my disposable income is they are going to want that! The lawyer said "if i quit one job i can go for a chapter 7," (i might have to be in the plan for 6 months - than i can decide what to do).

Im in a catch 22. With my day job im still paying myself back through my 401kplan on my honda. if i quit, i default on myself. but there are tax consequences.

I think im just venting hear because after reading the many forums, it seems pretty cool one can just vent without getting "fired," for being an idiot.

Im a gambler, I've always gotten myself out of jams by gambling, I dont think I'll ever quit. Heck, I was able to pay my lawyer to file ! But than look what jam i got into: filing BK. I know I know, i should quit. but I wont, at least now I can only gamble what I have (and not on my credit cards)

Questions: (if a lawyer be present)

How long would I have to quit one job if i were to convert from chapter 13 to chapter 7?

What will happen to my 401k plan if i decide to withdraw the whole amount (besides tax consequences) will the trustee take it !? (IF i decide to quit one job)

I know i could probably hold 2 full time jobs, but i dont want to if it is going to beat paying $800 month the "rest of my life," (my plan is for the next 5 years!) My lawyer even proposed I quit one job to "beat the system."

Thanks for you reply !

Catchmeifyoucan

[helpless]

Gosh, if you can do a 7, do a 7. Be done with it. I hate living my life under the trustee's hand.

[anonymuse]

A 401K plan is exempt; however, once its withdrawn, I would **think** it would no longer be considered exempt. (I was the idiot who wiped out my 401K to try to stay afloat thinking I could avoid BK.)

Working 2 FT jobs for so long shows how hard you've worked to try to not repeat your previous bankruptcy. However, you really need to get help with the gambling issue or you will keep repeating this cycle for life.

Working 2 FT jobs will eventually wear you down also. Add onto that living on a shoestring budget for five years would be extremely stressful. I'm assuming one job pays better than the other; plus one one (maybe not the same one) provides you more satisfaction. If it were me, I'd probably start being late and forgetful at the job I didn't care about anymore (if you can take the hint there).

Before you completed schedule J, did you really have a good handle on how much it was going to cost to live--do you feel that your schedule J is accurate? Are there any forgotten expenses there? Do you have adequate health insurance, life insurance, home insurance, etc to protect you from a financial downfall?

I hope for the best for you--I don't know if you have a SO and/or kids, but I don't see how anyone can manage two FT jobs and have any sort of "normal" life. I worked fulltime through fulltime graduate school and that was just about the demise of me.

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

I'm single. Don't own a thing, just a car, I rent an apartment. Part of the "problem," why I have a big disposable income is because what the my state allows me for rent (about $1600) I only pay $600. And of course working the 2FT shows throws me overboard. Oh, I'm screwed, I guess. Well, without the BK I would really be screwed. I like this sight alot people don't condemn you for your "lifestyle." I'm sure I'll be around, thanks for everyone's "support," here. I go before the judge next wednesday!

Catchmeifyoucan

[Jman30]

Catchmeifyoucan, I really feel your pain. When I was in a Chapter 13, there were times, especially during the Holidays, that I worked two jobs to make ends meet and to give the kids a good Christmas. I would work my full time job and I would leave the house before my wife and kids got up. I would work all day and go straight to my second job and work until late. By the time I got home, everyone was in bed. I went weeks without seeing my family. But I learned a VALULABLE lesson about financial responsibility from all this and I know I will never be in that situation again.

I really hope you can get some help for your gambling. You may not be ready for help since you admit that you have no intention of stopping....but I can't help but think that maybe a Chapter 13 would be good for you. It may drive you to get help for your gambling, once you see how awful life can really be. If gambling was the cause of it, maybe the next five years will be a wake-up call not to repeat that mistake and get help for your gambling.

I am not being judgemental in any way! I really do feel for you and your situation. I would just hate to see you get through all this and then be right back in the same spot in another few years. Life is too short to live like that, you know?

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

Appreciate You !

I appreciate your concern, I really do. I'm not married but do have an significant other, and my working day and night has never taken a toll on our relationship of 9 years (I guess it depends on ones need in a relationship).

But moving on, hmmm, I love to gamble I couldn't dream of giving it up, but maybe curbing it, now that I have to face the next 5 years (if I survive) the chapter. I can't say that I'm lucky all the time, but I'm lucky when I need it most. I got "lucky," and was able to pay my lawyer instead of waiting several pay periods to pay him. Guess I'm just making lame excuses.

I don't celebrate any holidays, so I'm not pressured there. Fortunately I don't have any kids (not to knock on people that do), I'm to selfish to think of having a kid(s), they are a big responsibility. I have plenty of nieces and nephews - I've lost count (those are my kids ), and I do spoil them when it's not Christmas, when I get lucky - everyone loves "Christmas in the Summer!"

Best Wishes, Catchmeifyoucan

[anonymuse]

Catch,

I give you credit--you're a hard worker--you definitely bust your butt. I'm assuming you are younger since you have the energy to do this all. Some of us "old timers" can't imagine it.

But it's the hard playing that will continue to haunt you unless you change your ways. We only say this because we care--you need to go to GA and fix the source of the problem. Otherwise, you will wind up defaulting on your Ch 13 when you decide to go gamble instead of paying the trustee. Then, you're chapter 13 is over, the creditors can add back in all the late charges and interest, and try to get any assets you have or garnish your wages (if that's allowable in your state). This may sound harsh--but it's reality and we'd rather see someone get help before it's too late.

Take care

[CATCHMEIFYOUCAN]

Thank you !

"I give you credit--you're a hard worker--you definitely bust your butt. I'm assuming you are younger since you have the energy to do this all. Some of us "old timers" can't imagine it.

But it's the hard playing that will continue to haunt you unless you change your ways. We only say this because we care--you need to go to GA and fix the source of the problem. Otherwise, you will wind up defaulting on your Ch 13 when you decide to go gamble instead of paying the trustee. Then, you're chapter 13 is over, the creditors can add back in all the late charges and interest, and try to get any assets you have or garnish your wages (if that's allowable in your state). This may sound harsh--but it's reality and we'd rather see someone get help before it's too late."

Oh, I'm getting up there in years, I'm 38. Hopefully if I can stick to my guns, I will stop this nonsense by my mid 40's. For right now, I will "suffer," the consequences. Thanks for you encouragement!
In the state of Virginia, they are going to send a court order to my day job once my payment is confirmed to have payments automatically taken from my pay periods, so no worries about spending the trustee's money

Catchmeifyoucan

[Interlaw]

This isn't a choice on what one **wants** to do--it's not a personal choice here. Everyone wants to win the lottery and payoff all of their debts to start over fresh, but that isn't going to happen either.

The laws are based on whether or not you have enough disposable income and whether or not your have non-exempt assets (over simplified, but I'm sure you get the point.)

Unfortunately, since you've already filed, you're kind of stuck (sorry!) If you worked 2 jobs before, unfortunately, the trustee will expect you to continue working 2 jobs. If you got ill or injured and could only work 1 job or had been fired/surplussed at one job prior to the 341 meeting, you would have had something to say when they asked if you had any anticipated changes in your income.

I believe that quitting one job could be viewed as abuse (although I personally can't see how someone can maintain 2 fulltime years for a 5 year plan.) Trustees are supposed to see if a plan is feasible and you'd think that they would take in consideration the number of hours worked, but instead they're only looking at $$$.

How long have you been working 2 jobs?

And, you're not a loser, you're just in a temporary rut and we've all made plenty of mistakes around here.

Hopefully, Brett Weiss, the lawyer, will chime in here.

I disagree. I've successfully argued that the Court can't require someone to work two jobs just to keep them in a Chapter 13 (or to make them ineligible for a Chapter 7).

[anonymuse]

That's good to hear. I discussed with several lawyers working a part-time job on top of my FT one to get money together for their fee but still remaining below the median and they said that I could be forced into a Ch 13 if I had too much disposable income.

Thanks for coming to these boards!