Eastern District of Michigan Trustee

[moses911]

Hello,

I was just wondering if any member have dealt with any of the 3 trustees in the eastern district and what was their main concern/objections. I read online that the eastern district trustees are very picky. I will be filling in couple of months.

Below is the list that I came up with please let me know if it is reasonable or not. (I based it on Federal exemption and filing with my spouse):

Expense Amount

Mortgage $ 1,195 Property Taxes and Insurance included in mortgage 401k Loan Payment $ 280 Electric and Gas $ 300 Water $ 50 Phones $ 160 Cable $ 166 Internet $ 50 Home Maintenance $ 100 Food $ 815 Housekeeping Supplies $ 71 Apparel and services $ 227 Personal Care products and services $ 74 Misc $ 322 Medical and Dental $ 150 Car Payment 1 $ 471(currently 350) Car Payment 2 $471(currently 290) Car Operation and Insurance Costs (2 cars. Maint, repair, insurance, fuel, registration) $ 532 Children Activities $ 85 Life Insurance $ 70 Gym $ 50 TOTAL $ 5639 NET SALARY $ 6150 Left for Payment $ 511

[Alex46]

My husband and I filed in the Eastern District. The trustee we got, I now know, is considered very "picky" and the judge tends to go along with her recommendations. Now, in my case, there were two factors. One, turns out the attorney I went with was basically a "bankruptcy mill" so he didn't go over and above when it came to filing. That caused me problems down the road because we also support my elderly mother (and have two mobile homes, etc.) The trustee nitpicked everything from the cost of cable, to food.

I don't know if the other trustees are a little more fair. The things that stand out to me in your list above, is one, food. The trustee may deem $815 too much for a food budget (I want to say that mine was knocked down to $250). They may also take issue with the gym membership. Anything that was considered "extra" was objected to. They will honestly suck every last extra penny they can, so things like the gym and "activities" may be looked upon negatively.

I was lucky and finally found a great attorney who actually reviewed my entire case, and is helping us get onto a more reasonable plan. We may end up having to dismiss and refile simply because the original attorney really made a mess of our case.

Good luck!!

[moses911]

Wow 250 for food? I used 815 as it is listed in the federal list of family of 4 this how much they use food. How can he question that? I thought any expense you add from the federal exemption list it is fair game. Which trustee out of the 3 you got?

[justbroke]

The amount, $250 for food, is so wrong. If a bankruptcy attorney allowed that to happen, they should be ashamed of themselves. The IRS/USTP amount for 2 people is $583 per month. Cutting a food allowance to something less than half is not only unimaginable, but dangerous. I do agree that Trustees can and should look at all your numbers and force debtors, when appropriate, to justify some expenses. I fully disagree that you should EVER submit to belt tightening on food (especially if you're within the IRS/USTPA allowance limits).

My Trustee complained about my "cable/internet" bill (made me drop it below $100, so I did $99 although it costs me $149). I never put anything like "gym" on my Schedule J and was careful when I put down $225 for "entertainment, clubs, recreation" (giving $55 for each of us per month). I put down the exact amount of the IRS/USTPA food allowance for 4 people (which is now $815) and I was prepared to fight any nit-picking on that.

I think the problem is when you start adding a bunch of "nit-picky" things, you get a more nit-picky Trustee. By nit-picky, I mean anything that is not already on Schedule J as a line item and which may seem irrelevant. Trustee will often complain about gym memberships on Schedule J. Some have also complained about dog food. The question is always whether it is reasonable and whether your attorney will go fight before the judge (since the Judge can approve a plan over the objection of a trustee, and they often do). Gym membership, let's just say it's necessary for your health and for recreation.

It's just one of my pet-peeves when Trustees take advantage of debtors, especially where the debtor's bankruptcy attorney is unwilling to challenge the Trustee.

[moses911]

Cool info. I will remove the gym from the list just to avoid the headache

[justbroke]

Cool info. I will remove the gym from the list just to avoid the headache

I'm not saying remove it, I'm saying classify it better.

If you're talking about Schedule J, you can include it in the #13 "Entertainment, clubs, recreation, newspapers, magazines, and books" amount. Just don't be too fancy with #13. I just think when certain things are explicitly listed on Schedule J ("gym" versus the catchall #13 "Entertainment, clubs, recreation, newspapers, magazines, and books") they draw more attention. Also, when talking about a gym, don't call it a "gym"... call it a "health club". That way the Trustee will have a harder time attacking a specific thing.

[moses911]

Ya my lawyer will help. I was just trying to see how much I can afford before meeting him next month. I heard the eastern district trustee's are pain here in michigan and they always complain.

[Alex46]

Wow 250 for food? I used 815 as it is listed in the federal list of family of 4 this how much they use food. How can he question that? I thought any expense you add from the federal exemption list it is fair game. Which trustee out of the 3 you got?

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, was a long week last week hehe

I got Tammy Terry as the Trustee. Now, in all fairness, my first and biggest mistake was the attorney I first got. He had a ton of great reviews online, but then it turns out that he didn't listen one bit. he wanted a "quick and easy" filing and so he really screwed us. We support my elderly mother, and he listed her mobile home as a rental property. The Trustee took issue with our cell phone bill, and he never clarified that it was a family plan and wasn't only just me and my husband, but my mother and my mother-in-law. Just a lot of things that looked on the surface to be frivolous.

I finally found a fantastic attorney who is really fighting for us. We want to actually dismiss and re-file because our original filing is so messed up (and now, my husband has lost his job so we only have my income) but we are trying to get a mortgage to get my mom out of her money pit home. So, our attorney has managed to get our payment temporarily reduced to a small amount while we do a modification.

It's an experience, to say the least!

[Alex46]

The amount, $250 for food, is so wrong. If a bankruptcy attorney allowed that to happen, they should be ashamed of themselves. The IRS/USTP amount for 2 people is $583 per month. Cutting a food allowance to something less than half is not only unimaginable, but dangerous. I do agree that Trustees can and should look at all your numbers and force debtors, when appropriate, to justify some expenses. I fully disagree that you should EVER submit to belt tightening on food (especially if you're within the IRS/USTPA allowance limits).

My Trustee complained about my "cable/internet" bill (made me drop it below $100, so I did $99 although it costs me $149). I never put anything like "gym" on my Schedule J and was careful when I put down $225 for "entertainment, clubs, recreation" (giving $55 for each of us per month). I put down the exact amount of the IRS/USTPA food allowance for 4 people (which is now $815) and I was prepared to fight any nit-picking on that.

I think the problem is when you start adding a bunch of "nit-picky" things, you get a more nit-picky Trustee. By nit-picky, I mean anything that is not already on Schedule J as a line item and which may seem irrelevant. Trustee will often complain about gym memberships on Schedule J. Some have also complained about dog food. The question is always whether it is reasonable and whether your attorney will go fight before the judge (since the Judge can approve a plan over the objection of a trustee, and they often do). Gym membership, let's just say it's necessary for your health and for recreation.

It's just one of my pet-peeves when Trustees take advantage of debtors, especially where the debtor's bankruptcy attorney is unwilling to challenge the Trustee.

I actually just went back and confirmed on my plan, that food is at $300 for us. This is the first time I've heard of the IRS/USTP amount. Is that a common figure used in bankruptcy calculations?

It's interesting that you mention not belt tightening insofar as food. In my case, I have epilepsy, so I am on a ketogenic diet which helps with my seizures. But, can't be a bit pricey in terms of ingredients (beef, etc.) it would be nice to not have such a horrifically small food budget!

[justbroke]

I actually just went back and confirmed on my plan, that food is at $300 for us. This is the first time I've heard of the IRS/USTP amount. Is that a common figure used in bankruptcy calculations?

The IRS/USTP allowances are "THE" figures used for consumer bankruptcies and are part of the IRS collection standards.

It's interesting that you mention not belt tightening insofar as food. In my case, I have epilepsy, so I am on a ketogenic diet which helps with my seizures. But, can't be a bit pricey in terms of ingredients (beef, etc.) it would be nice to not have such a horrifically small food budget!

I would have fought the food budget and brought it before the judge. I personally would have kicked and screamed about a medical issue that requires a stricter diet. No one should ever skimp on the food budget. That's just my philosophy. It seems easy to do, but you'll suffer the Curse of the Starving Class (1994).

You also mention that you just lost a job. This is the time you should immediately have some sort of Motion to Abate Plan Payments in place so that you can stop the bleeding from the lost income. Additionally, your attorney should craft a REAL plan that is going to work. I don't want you to fail, and your attorney should be much more caring about you making it through a plan that is not only feasible, but livable.

United States Trustee Program -- Means Testing https://www.justice.gov/ust/means-testing/20161101
USTP Living Expenses (Allowances) https://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcp..._standards.htm

[Alex46]

The IRS/USTP allowances are "THE" figures used for consumer bankruptcies and are part of the IRS collection standards.

I would have fought the food budget and brought it before the judge. I personally would have kicked and screamed about a medical issue that requires a stricter diet. No one should ever skimp on the food budget. That's just my philosophy. It seems easy to do, but you'll suffer the Curse of the Starving Class (1994).

You also mention that you just lost a job. This is the time you should immediately have some sort of Motion to Abate Plan Payments in place so that you can stop the bleeding from the lost income. Additionally, your attorney should craft a REAL plan that is going to work. I don't want you to fail, and your attorney should be much more caring about you making it through a plan that is not only feasible, but livable.

United States Trustee Program -- Means Testing https://www.justice.gov/ust/means-testing/20161101
USTP Living Expenses (Allowances) https://www.justice.gov/ust/eo/bapcp..._standards.htm

Thank you for the insight! Well, as I mentioned, the original attorney really screwed us (I'd posted about it in other threads). The new attorney I found is great, and is doing everything in his power to get our plan modified. When my husband first lost his job, he filed a motion to modify the plan immediately and give us six months of lower payments, but the trustee wouldn't rule on it. The last day allowed, she came back with objections. We went round and round for over a month. The attorney finally filed an emergency motion and we went to court. Luckily, the attorney for the trustee that heard our case was very understanding, and actually quite nasty towards the mobile home park (they were fighting for their back lot fees on my mom's home). She was disgusted when she saw the photos of the sewage floods that had happened in my mom's house. But, that's just an aside. For now, my attorney needs to file a new plan by the 12th of this month, and he's working to create a livable plan for us.

I don't want to fail, especially now that we are 14 months in. I just need it to be workable to where I can afford both our health costs (I have epilepsy, and now my husband has blood pressure and heart issues). So, fingers crossed!

OP, sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread!