New here with some 13 questions

[treehugger1]

What a great forum.

I'm heading into chapter 13 prior to December 1. The means test places me in 13 under a five-year plan, and allows the use of the "Standards" exemptions for form 22B. I understand that the standards and my expenses schedule are only a starting point with the trustee. Both my expenses and the allowable standards are nearly the same. My attorney has considerable experience with the local trustee and "claims" he can probably get the allowable national IRS/Census standards for living, housing, and transportation. I'll believe it when I see it.

I'm $147000.00 in debt and with the exception of two financed autos, $130K is unsecured. I have no other assests and I'm not a homeowner. Of the unsecured, $74K is student loans, mine and some plus loans from my daughter. The student loans are consolidated. Here are some questions:

1) I have already read that student loans can be a real wild card in a chapter 13. It appears that some trustees build the entire amount into the five-year plan and some leave you with the balance to deal with after the discharge of other unsecured debt. Is it possible to include the $560 student loan payments as a current expense and continue to pay this outside of the payment plan? I ask this, because if this is possible then I would be in a 100% payment plan. If I include the student loans as part of the payment plan and they are paid 100% over the five years, then the other unsecured creditors would receive only about 65% - 70%. This is just a strange twist of the mathematics. How exactly does a trustee determine payback to other unsecured creditors when priority unsecured creditors such as student loans are involved? Does the truste attempt to payoff th eloans in five years, or does the trustee pay a token amount toward the student loans and leav me with a large balance upon the 3 discharge?

2) How likley is it that a creditor will raise objections to a 100% plan? I ask this because I really would like everything as clean and complete as possible. I know I'm probably dreaming.


3) I'm waiting for the attorney to provide me with a scenario and sent him an email about paying the student loans outside of a payment plan and 100% to other creditors. Does anyone here have any experience with such a proposal?


4) How likely is it that the trustee will grant me the full expenses listed under the national standards on the DOJ trustee website? It seems like there are no guarantees how a trustee might rule.

Thanks, and I am very impressed with what I've foun don this forum.

Cheers.

Exploring options.

[anonymuse]

1) There are different priorities associated with loans. Even though credit cards and student loans are both considered non-priority unsecured loans, a student loan ranks higher than a credit card; however, I think it will be highly dependent on your trustee. Sorry, but I don't have a definitive answer to this one. Have you asked your lawyer about proposing a plan where cc and student loans get the same percentage repayment?

2) I would **think** highly unlikely--considering your amount of unsecured debt, I would think they'd be thrilled with you.

3) Same as #1

4) As long as you have supporting documentation (receipts, bills, etc), you shouldn't have a problem.

Good luck!

[miss puff]

2) How likley is it that a creditor will raise objections to a 100% plan? I ask this because I really would like everything as clean and complete as possible. I know I'm probably dreaming.

Hi and welcome treehugger. I am just wondering why you would WANT to pay back 100% if you didn't have to. It is my understanding that bankrupt is bankrupt and whether you pay 100% or 50% your still bankrupt. However, I am a ch 7, no assett and really don't know much at all about rules in a 13. I could just be shooting thoughts out my err, umm, mouth that I really have no clue about.

Also, if you include the student loans in your payoff, which would probably be at 100% because they are rarely dischargable, but you wouldn't be paying interest on them and they would for sure be paid off in 5 years. Might work out better that way.

Anyways, again, welcome

[SinkingFast]

Whether or not you'll get the Schedules Allowables is really gonna depend on the "tradition" of the Court.

We're allowed, according to the Schedules, to spend $1300/mo on food. We actually spend $1000-$1100/mo at the grocery. Our attny is filing our petition with an even lower amount on our Schedule J. Based on what the Court here is used to seeing.

Personally, I'd rather pay the Student Loans in the Ch 13 plan with Unsecureds getting a lower portion. At the end of your Ch 13, any remaining Unsecured Debt would be fully discharged. Most likely not the case with Student Loans. All Federally Funded Student Loans are totally not Dischargeable. And there's been recent rulings in favor of Privately Funded Student Loans as well.

As Miss P suggested, you could finish your Ch 13 payment plan with all your Student Loan debt paid in full and the remainder of your Unsecureds discharged.

As to whether or not any one will object,........... We can't say. We've seen people file against high balances as the result of gambling debts with no Creditor Objections. The case goes right across the Trustee's desk without a problem. We've seen No Asset, Ch 7 people tagged by the Trustee for $$$'s for their leaky garden hose and broken rake.

You roll the dice, you take your chances in BK. File your petition and hope for the best.

[Jman30]

The only real reason I can think of to pay back 100% in a Chapter Plan is if you plan on doing a buyout before 36 months, since you would have to pay abck 100% anyway.

[anonymuse]

The only real reason I can think of to pay back 100% in a Chapter Plan is if you plan on doing a buyout before 36 months, since you would have to pay abck 100% anyway.

Some people need to catch up on their mortgage and then would have been okay paying back all of their credit cards if only the credit card companies didn't continually add late fees and maximum interest rates. The Ch 13 can put a freeze on the extra fees/interest and allow people to pay back 100% (and actually more) of their original purchases and whatever interest and fees have accumulated to that point. The cc companies never let us get out of the hole we've dug which winds up forcing many into bankruptcy (I'm not putting all the blame on cc companies since we're ultimately responsible for our choices, but they don't make things easy either.)

[dylancarly]

Hello
My student loan debt is included in my plan and it is paid the same percentage as my unsecured creditors. My payoff is about 50 percent so theoritically my balance on my loan will be 50 percent less after my 5 year plan is finished. However I do beleive that interest still builds for student loans during a chapter 13 plan so I am sure that my balance will be a little more than half after discharge.