STRUGGLING

[murph996]

3-1/2 years in on 5 year 100% and it's been a struggle.

I just want to be done. The breaking point was today. At work they changed our pay dates, and we received a 1 week check instead of 2, but they took out my full payment and I was left without a check. They did not communicate this clearly ahead of time on the 1 week check, and certainly not about the deduction.

But I have been struggling before this. I got behind on my mortgage, so that was rolled into my bankruptcy - and the arrears is almost paid up now.

I am behind on my taxes - I messed up on deductions for 2014 - partly because I had less mortgage write off due to missing payments.

I don't see a way out. I do feel if I just quit this I'd be better off than when I went in and am in better position to fight the creditors - and pay them off what's remaining. Don't know how much they will hit me with back interest, etc..Most of my debt was IRS and online payday stuff. I just don't see how I am going to make it 1-1/2 years or how I'll even pay 2014 taxes.I suppose we may be able to roll that in to my payment..but the payment is quite burdensome as it is.

And to top it off, I don't know that my car is going to last until this is over.

Someone talk me off the ledge..I DO want to complete this, but I don't know how it is possible. I am one blown furnace or broken down car away from disaster.

[spidge]

Man o man chapter 13 sure has a way of keeping our backs against the wall. I feel for ya. I have had many similar challenges and was in the F it! stage often, but road it through the best I could. I don't want to go into my issues as you can look it up if interested, but take a moment and consider that feeling once the BK is discharged. The pay issue is very tough to deal with but one weeks pay is not that bad. I know it seems over the top for you currently, but one weeks wages just is not that much money in the grand scheme. I had no pay for 3-1/2 months in the fourth year of my BK. Talk about shitting bricks and spinning on my thumbs for entertainment.
An option to consider is to defer a BK payment. Ask your attorney to see if the trustee would spread a payment over the following three months. I know it only causes a larger payment for three months but it is an option. Imagine being homeless and trying to make every kernel of food, gas, clothes, bills count. Its temporary. You will get through it.
OK, I said I wouldn't but here you go;
We had a large 401K payment that was not considered for the first 6 months.
Wife totaled her car in the third month.
Washer went out.
My car needed $800 in repairs..
Her car needed $1K in repairs.
Wife does not get paid for two months of the summer.(not a high paying job).
Pluming backed up three times during all this.
I(primary wage earner) was injured in the 3rd year. Out for a touch over a year.
No pay once released from the doctor for over 3 months.(involved story)
Once back to work had to pay back insurance premiums.
My car was totaled in my 59th month of BK plan.
Made final payment on BK but need $2K to complete lien strip.( Stressed to raise it, but calculating alternatives)

Will the money I earn ever be MINE!!!!

My wishes for you are to stay the course, suck up what is out of your control(relax and have a drink), hope it goes your way, build karma by doing the right things and prioritizing, continue to set yourself up to take advantage of opportunities, the little things family and friends do for you add up greatly.

[dmc-2008]

Murph this sound really hard! But not impossible! I am looking at a heater going out, so my save is space heaters. When the washer dies, laundry mat, when my car dies...,screwed!

But hey, I was wondering. I think I have read, someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think you can ask for some kind of break from the trustee payments to get cought up, they just extend your term!!! Can you ask your atty if the paycheck thing might buy you a month or two! Be strong!!!! All the best xoxo

[mynameainttracy]

I know that in our plan we had the option to defer up to 2 payments over the course of our plan. Talk to your attorney and see if you have that option so maybe you can catch your breath.

[murph996]

Last time I checked, I calculated that I would pay off a couple months early, if correct, maybe I could defer some and stay on schedule.

My immediate stess of being extremely tight for the next month aside, my immediate concern is my taxes.

Maybe we can add that additional debt to my payment (although a larger payment doesn't really help). I did have an amended return that reduced the amount I owe that has not been reported. I think that will mostly offset the additional amount I owe for 2014.

Additionally, I'm overdrawn on my savings, and they are threatening to close the account. It is 100% fees. - $200 worth. I made a purchase via paypal through walmart that they were out of stock on, I tried to re-order through another store, and they again said they were out of stock and I wouldnt be charged. Since both orders were canceled, I never put money to cover the purchase in that account. Well, they tried to put each charge through twice, resulting in 4 overdraft fees. The bank won't do anything. Of course this happens with no paycheck coming in, 2 weeks after getting a 1 week check. When it rains it pours.

If I can just make it through the next few months, I think I may be ok. Right now though I have been struggling with a solution. Hopefully a deferral is the answer.

Thanks for the replies.

[BriOS]

Last time I checked, I calculated that I would pay off a couple months early, if correct, maybe I could defer some and stay on schedule.

My immediate stess of being extremely tight for the next month aside, my immediate concern is my taxes.

Maybe we can add that additional debt to my payment (although a larger payment doesn't really help). I did have an amended return that reduced the amount I owe that has not been reported. I think that will mostly offset the additional amount I owe for 2014.

Additionally, I'm overdrawn on my savings, and they are threatening to close the account. It is 100% fees. - $200 worth. I made a purchase via paypal through walmart that they were out of stock on, I tried to re-order through another store, and they again said they were out of stock and I wouldnt be charged. Since both orders were canceled, I never put money to cover the purchase in that account. Well, they tried to put each charge through twice, resulting in 4 overdraft fees. The bank won't do anything. Of course this happens with no paycheck coming in, 2 weeks after getting a 1 week check. When it rains it pours.

If I can just make it through the next few months, I think I may be ok. Right now though I have been struggling with a solution. Hopefully a deferral is the answer.

Thanks for the replies.

Have you inquired about flipping your 13 to a 7? Also if your "expenses have changed", your lawyer can recalculate your plan payment to give you some room. Remember, your expenses are what YOU say they are.... Catch my drift. Also check into the payment deferment. Also unless there is a legal need, there is no reason for your plan payment to be taken out of your paycheck. If you must put it on some sort of auto pay, then use TFS Bill Pay. I use it and I control when it gets pulled. And if I need to push it for some reason a few days or weeks, I can. You really need to sit with your attorney and discuss all this. When people are this tight while in a 13, that means that your lawyer did not leave you enough room in your monthly budget for LIVING. Have him recalculate your numbers, but pad in some higher living expenses. Seriously, its your job to plan for the unplanned, and its your attorney's job to inform you of this. I sincerely hope you make it through. We have been there too, and man that light at the end of the tunnel will get brighter and brighter. Then when you complete, you will feel like a rockstar. Good luck.

[dmc-2008]

Maybe I read this wrong but it sounds like u are telling OP to make up and pad expenses. Um I would not do that and you actually have to show receipts to justify them.

You dont want to commit a crime right out of the gate, I am sure you meant something different! :-)

[BriOS]

Maybe I read this wrong but it sounds like u are telling OP to make up and pad expenses. Um I would not do that and you actually have to show receipts to justify them.

You dont want to commit a crime right out of the gate, I am sure you meant something different! :-)

They dont need to make up anything. They are negative right now and any attorney should tell you that you need to plan for your monthly expenses, incidentals and a small amount for leisure. Being in chapter 13 should not be this tight. As I said your attorney should have explained this. If you plan down to your current penny, how do you afford a plate sticker or health insurance copays when they come up? There are lots of unknown expenses you may not be able to exactly plan for, so thats what you have to literally do when calculating your monthly with your attorney.

[murph996]

I am meeting with the attorney on Friday. And, yes the plan payment has been tight since the outset, but I've just tried to make it work. My initial attorney was not the best, I don't think. Never entertained a CH 7 or anything less than 100% pay CH13. If I recall correctly, the means test in the file showed that this would be too tight but he glossed over that because he said my income was too high. So maybe we can convert this to a CH 13 at less than 100%. Don't think a CH 7 would work..but we'll see what options I have on Friday.

He left the firm, but the firm kept me on since my initial contact was with the firm that assigned me to him.

I should have known it was too tight when I struggled paying my 2nd mortgage pretty much out of the gate - we ended up rolling that payment in to the plan. Later, I fell behind on the 1st mortgage as things came up, so we rolled that into the plan. Now, I owe taxes - and I knew I would but didn't bring myself to increase my deductions because the reduction in take home would be too much.

My plan last year was to take a 401(k) loan - but our 401(k) plan changed and that won't be an option until this coming July. I figured that I could pay what I owe and have a cushion to survive until the end of this. Maybe not the smartest plan but my options were few .

Hoping for some good options. I can't lose the house or the car. The arreareges for the home loan is just about paid. Really, my only major concern if I get a discharge is that they'd repossess the car without giving me an opportunity to pay it off. I called GM Financial and the payoff outside of bankruptcy is a couple thousand more than I would owe through the bankruptcy.

As far as the payment being deducted from my check, that is a requirement in my district, I believe.

[bbeagle]

My plan last year was to take a 401(k) loan - but our 401(k) plan changed and that won't be an option until this coming July. I figured that I could pay what I owe and have a cushion to survive until the end of this. Maybe not the smartest plan but my options were few .

Hoping for some good options. I can't lose the house or the car. The arreareges for the home loan is just about paid. Really, my only major concern if I get a discharge is that they'd repossess the car without giving me an opportunity to pay it off. I called GM Financial and the payoff outside of bankruptcy is a couple thousand more than I would owe through the bankruptcy.

Whoa, there!

You CANNOT take out any debt in a Chapter 13. You CANNOT take any money out of a 401K. ALL the money you take out must immediately go to pay creditors. Since you have a 100% payback, this should end your bankruptcy earlier though.

It seems to me that your lawyer did a HORRIBLE job. Bankruptcy for us is SO much better than pre-bankruptcy. Before bankruptcy, ALL our income was going to pay bills. We had ZERO money to do anything else, like even buy food or gas for our cars or lawnmower. In order to buy groceries, gas or fix something, we had to put it on credit cards, creating MORE debt. We never went out to the movies, or did anything fun.

Once we went to our lawyer, he found out all our expenses, and now we have plenty of money for food, gas, incidentals, and even some for entertainment. Now we live a much easier life style, where we can eat out once a month, and go to the movies once a month. We can afford internet service. We can actually buy new clothes for the first time in 10 years. I can now wear clothes without holes in them. We're not living extravagantly, but we are living much easier. No problem paying for housing, utilities or anything. And if something unexpected comes up like a car repair, we will cut down our grocery bill and eat ramen noodles that month.

Something your lawyer did is completely wrong. We're only paying 12% of what we owed. $70K income.

[BriOS]

Whoa, there!

You CANNOT take out any debt in a Chapter 13. You CANNOT take any money out of a 401K. ALL the money you take out must immediately go to pay creditors. Since you have a 100% payback, this should end your bankruptcy earlier though.

It seems to me that your lawyer did a HORRIBLE job. Bankruptcy for us is SO much better than pre-bankruptcy. Before bankruptcy, ALL our income was going to pay bills. We had ZERO money to do anything else, like even buy food or gas for our cars or lawnmower. In order to buy groceries, gas or fix something, we had to put it on credit cards, creating MORE debt. We never went out to the movies, or did anything fun.

Once we went to our lawyer, he found out all our expenses, and now we have plenty of money for food, gas, incidentals, and even some for entertainment. Now we live a much easier life style, where we can eat out once a month, and go to the movies once a month. We can afford internet service. We can actually buy new clothes for the first time in 10 years. I can now wear clothes without holes in them. We're not living extravagantly, but we are living much easier. No problem paying for housing, utilities or anything. And if something unexpected comes up like a car repair, we will cut down our grocery bill and eat ramen noodles that month.

Something your lawyer did is completely wrong. We're only paying 12% of what we owed. $70K income.

THIS is what Im talking about. The lawyer should have setup your BK so you are not literally down to the penny. This is what I was trying to explain before. And this is exactly how my family feels too since we filed. The pressure has been let out significantly since before we filed. Should never be like this after. And if its just a pride thing that you pay back 100% of your debts, then its your own fault. And I highly suggest you press the lawyers to see if they can flip you to a 7. You will get a discharge in 3 months, and you wont have to spend the next 2 1/2 years paying back all that money. If you are struggling this bad, then this should be priority #1.

[herc76]

Whoa, there!

You CANNOT take out any debt in a Chapter 13. You CANNOT take any money out of a 401k

That is not true at least in my case. I have a 5 yr 100% payback plan and have taken a few loans from my 401k. Not even sure how the trustee would know quite frankly. Although I wouldn't recommend doing so, you do what you need to do to survive.
To the OP, Keep in mind, once you take the loan out, your paycheck will be smaller so once you burn through the loan, you'll actually be in worse shape financually unless you used it to pay off some secured debt like a car payment.

[murph996]

First on the 401(k). It is generally allowed in a 100% chapter 13 case. You can't pay the creditors more than 100%. I really do want to avoid this though. edit: for the reason herc stated. I cannot afford the current plan payment and the 401(k) payment. The only way I would probably do that is if the payment gets lowered significantly to pay the tyax bill or to pay off the chapter 13 entirely. But if I got to that point, I would probably be close enough to being done, that it would not make sense.

So, I dug out my initial petition and found the means test. It shows I had $263.05 in disposable monthly income. Yet I am paying $1300 monthly (not counting car and mortgages). Shouldn't the plan payment have been $263.05 at the most, or am I reading this wrong??, but I cannot believe that plan was confirmed. And shame on me for not questioning this or seeing more than 1 attorney.

I am at the same time excited that I may be able to modify this to something more manageable, and pissed off at myself and the initial attorney. I was at a weak point (as many of us are) when I filed and had everyone telling me what I needed to do, and felt like a failure, so I didn't trust my instincts and went with what the attorney told me.

My income is significantly higher than what qualifies for the CH 7, so I still doubt that would be the route we could take, but I would expect that we can modify the payment to be more in line with my actual disposable income. Regular expenses and income haven't changed a ton, so if we re-do the means test, my disposable income may go up a little, but not enough to justify the $1300 monthly payment.

[bbeagle]

THIS is what Im talking about. The lawyer should have setup your BK so you are not literally down to the penny. This is what I was trying to explain before. And this is exactly how my family feels too since we filed. The pressure has been let out significantly since before we filed. Should never be like this after. And if its just a pride thing that you pay back 100% of your debts, then its your own fault. And I highly suggest you press the lawyers to see if they can flip you to a 7. You will get a discharge in 3 months, and you wont have to spend the next 2 1/2 years paying back all that money. If you are struggling this bad, then this should be priority #1.

Exactly.


For example, look at the link I attached. The courts are fine with you putting down the AVERAGE for each expense. We have a family of 3 - the national standard is $626 for food, $197 for clothing, etc. We put down $600/food a month, $200 for clothes, $400 for each car in expenses a month (gas, insurance, inspection, oil changes, repairs), etc.

If your lawyer didn't help you out, then you need to get it fixed as soon as possible with a new lawyer.

With gas prices going down, we have an extra $100 a month because of the fuel savings.

Bankruptcy SAVED our 401k - we would have had to take it out to pay bills, but now, it's there for our future. Saving the 401k is one of the reasons we filed bankruptcy.

[bbeagle]

So, I dug out my initial petition and found the means test. It shows I had $263.05 in disposable monthly income. Yet I am paying $1300 monthly (not counting car and mortgages). Shouldn't the plan payment have been $263.05 at the most, or am I reading this wrong??, but I cannot believe that plan was confirmed. And shame on me for not questioning this or seeing more than 1 attorney.

You should pay $263.05 at the MOST. (Unless they're adding in your car and mortgages to the payment).

Our disposable monthly income was $287, and that's exactly what we're paying.

Going into bankruptcy, I thought we'd be paying more like $800-$1000 a month. We can afford that if cut our expenses down to nothing (like only eating rice and beans, and heating our house to only 45 degrees in the winter and wearing coats all the time). Our lawyer said don't do that. Live like a reasonable person. No vacations, but heat the house to like 68 in the winter, don't eat lobster, but have enough food to get by without feeling like you're struggling. He said (paraphrasing) 'If you're trying to pay back your debt without bankruptcy, go ahead and struggle, but bankruptcy is not meant for that. It's meant as a relief for people who have struggled for years. It's meant as a way to get back on your feet. It comes with many penalties like destroying your credit, not being able to get loans to buy new things, etc.'