STRUGGLING

[murph996]

The car was included initially. The 2nd mortgage was added about 6 months in when I was struggling with that payment, and the 1st mortgage was added in later as I struggled with that. It should have been obvious as I struggled that something was wrong. We don't spend any extra money, and every major expense is a disaster.

The $1300 payment is the portion that covers all the other debt less mortgages and cars.

There was nothing added above the standard allowable expenses on the form, so I'm hoping a modification will be pretty cut and dry. I don't know if any credit will be given that I have been paying much more than I should have for 3 years - I would guess not..and would just be thrilled if we could modify the ongoing payment to what it really should be.

[murph996]

You should pay $263.05 at the MOST. (Unless they're adding in your car and mortgages to the payment).

Our disposable monthly income was $287, and that's exactly what we're paying.

Going into bankruptcy, I thought we'd be paying more like $800-$1000 a month. We can afford that if cut our expenses down to nothing (like only eating rice and beans, and heating our house to only 45 degrees in the winter and wearing coats all the time). Our lawyer said don't do that. Live like a reasonable person. No vacations, but heat the house to like 68 in the winter, don't eat lobster, but have enough food to get by without feeling like you're struggling. He said (paraphrasing) 'If you're trying to pay back your debt without bankruptcy, go ahead and struggle, but bankruptcy is not meant for that. It's meant as a relief for people who have struggled for years. It's meant as a way to get back on your feet. It comes with many penalties like destroying your credit, not being able to get loans to buy new things, etc.'

Thanks for that. I really am having mixed emotions right now. I have been really depressed that I saw this failing, and felt myself falling into the same thoughts and traps that got me into financial trouble initially. I've had the same pit in my stomach lately as when I hit bottom before filing for bankruptcy. But now it seems obvious that there was really NO way this bankruptcy could succeed in the way it was initially drawn up. While it was my fault for not questioning that early on, I feel better about going forward.

[bbeagle]

There was nothing added above the standard allowable expenses on the form, so I'm hoping a modification will be pretty cut and dry. I don't know if any credit will be given that I have been paying much more than I should have for 3 years - I would guess not..and would just be thrilled if we could modify the ongoing payment to what it really should be.

I hope so. Keep us informed on what happens.

Reading these forums, I hear people who 'enjoy' bankruptcy in that it relieves them of the pains of bill collectors, and overwhelming bills and they see the light at the end of the tunnel. I also hear people who it's made life a lot worse for them, and they struggle even more. I don't understand the wide differences. Is it bad/good lawyers, or location in the country, certain cities have judges that feel differently?

The lawyers, judge, court in my bankruptcy - all made me have the feeling that they were trying to HELP me. They wanted to make it as simple for me as possible, they told me they wanted to make sure my Chapter 13 succeeded, and I could resume a normal life. They said the average expenses for a family our size and income are what we SHOULD live on, not the meager means we were living on before. And of course, they didn't want us living too well either, just average. They included $200 for entertainment/leisure a month. This is something we've never had before.

So, we had different experiences. I hope you can experience what we are experiencing.

And I don't understand at all how your 'disposable income' was only $250 or so, and they're making you pay more than $1000 extra? So it looks like the disposable income was calculated correctly. As far as I've read, that is supposed to be the maximum they can take for 5 years.

[murph996]

I'm not sure how I started in a 100% plan based on that.

Unfortunately, looking at our current income, it actually increased by about $600/month from that time, and it looks like some of the standards changed and I didn't see where we could claim voluntary 401(k) deductions any more..so the new means test puts me pretty much with disposable income of what I am paying.

I do believe that we legitimately pay more for food/clothing, So I could probably legitimately claim more there, and on auto expense (I have a long commute = more gas, etc.)

So maybe we can reduce the payment a bit based on my current circumstances..but probably not as much as I was initially hoping--unless there's something that can be accounted for due to paying more than my means for the 1st 3 years (which I doubt).

[jmac]

I think people get way to hung up on being perfect in the ch 13, i say do what you got to do to get it over with without dropping out. I took out 2 or 3 401k loans, changed my 401 deduction anywhere from 5% to 15%, worked overtime whenever possible made way more then my original plan, never heard a word from trustee, he got my tax returns. Biggest problem is when people start there plan, the payment sets them up for failure, which all starts with your lawyer. You shouldn't have to eat beans to make a plan work.

[murph996]

Meeting with my attorney moved to Tuesday due to weather (which never materialized here). Think I'm going to try to stick it out..but have to get the tax situation worked out. Still steaming over the initial plan..but nothing to do about that now. We'll see what options I have..but I want to see this through. Want to avoid tapping into 401(k) - at least until I get to the point where I could pay it off completely using 401(k) funds.

[jmac]

I messed up on my taxes same way as you pretty much and when i was almost at the end the IRS asked trustee for the money so my last 2-3 payments went to IRS, I figured i was going to end of doing payment plan as soon as my 13 ended, but instead it got payed off and even got a refund from IRS, Don't give up hope you can do it.

[murph996]

Met with the attorney at lunchtime, and he is having me re-work my Income and Expense forms. He says it is possible that I will qualify for a plan at less than 100%. I think they used this form to determine what I could afford initially. And it was really off..Mortgages weren't in there as well as some other stuff and I may have underestimated some things. I should have caught those, but I guess I didn't fully understand the implications. My attorney was telling me all along that I'd be a 100% case. So I guess I was completing to plow through the paperwork.

Right now it looks like I'm paying about $500 more than my budget really allows. I also think I should probably add more for household expenses. I put in what I actually paid over the last year through my spending summary from my bank - but need to account for the random major repair and replacement.

Still frustrated knowing I likely should have been paying way less over the last 3 years..but if I can knock my payment down until this is over, It will be do-able.

On the taxes, the attorney said I would deal with the IRS on that. I am putting that amount into my budget to pay it off by the end. Also, I had an amended return - if we don't force a change to the IRS amount, I will overpay on the back taxes, so I'm not in horrible shape there..just need to get it filed.

[jmac]

Murph when i first started my case 5 years ago the low budget want a be lawyer that started my paperwork insisted my plan was going to be around 1700-1800 a month ended up being 555 so there is plenty of wiggle room.

[BriOS]

Met with the attorney at lunchtime, and he is having me re-work my Income and Expense forms. He says it is possible that I will qualify for a plan at less than 100%. I think they used this form to determine what I could afford initially. And it was really off..Mortgages weren't in there as well as some other stuff and I may have underestimated some things. I should have caught those, but I guess I didn't fully understand the implications. My attorney was telling me all along that I'd be a 100% case. So I guess I was completing to plow through the paperwork.

Right now it looks like I'm paying about $500 more than my budget really allows. I also think I should probably add more for household expenses. I put in what I actually paid over the last year through my spending summary from my bank - but need to account for the random major repair and replacement.

Still frustrated knowing I likely should have been paying way less over the last 3 years..but if I can knock my payment down until this is over, It will be do-able.

On the taxes, the attorney said I would deal with the IRS on that. I am putting that amount into my budget to pay it off by the end. Also, I had an amended return - if we don't force a change to the IRS amount, I will overpay on the back taxes, so I'm not in horrible shape there..just need to get it filed.

Murph, now you are getting it. Good for you. Keep us updated.